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Do you not think that the US has a huge sphere of influence? It seems to me that the US can and does take any action it wishes to outside its borders. Sometimes
by dnh44 4y ago
Do you not think that the US has a huge sphere of influence? It seems to me that the US can and does take any action it wishes to outside its borders. Sometimes those actions have a good moral justification and sometimes they don’t.
>US and Russia simply can not agree between themselves what should be Ukraine's place in the world.
I’ll argue the opposite. The Ukraine has no inherent right to join NATO. Ukraine isn’t going to join NATO unless the US wants it to join and this is morally correct in every way considering the obligations of article 5. Additionally every other NATO member has the right to veto expanding the alliance (this is fact btw not opinion).
Additionally the US has every right to negotiate with Russia over Ukraine joining should the US wish to.
- distances 4y ago> The Ukraine has no inherent right to join NATO. This is not what is argued. I agree with you, it's of course up to NATO and EU to decide who they accept as members, and they may include Russian interests in the decision if they want. Point is that Russia has no say over Ukraine's ambitions. The war started because Ukraine wanted away from Russia and moved towards Western values. This is unquestionably Ukraine's right. And if they don't succeed at joining the EU, then their place may be a non-aligned country with Western values and ambitions. That Russia must simply accept and move on.
- dnh44 4y agoSorry, it seems I misinterpreted your comment. >Point is that Russia has no say over Ukraine's ambitions...That Russia must simply accept and move on. Well, that's the crux of the matter isn't it. They've not accepted it and haven't moved on and unless/until they are expelled from Ukraine they have a rather large amount of influence over what happens there. It's interesting to watch that's for sure. One way or another the world is going to look different when this is over.
- 8note 4y agoUkraine has inherent freedom to join NATO. It needs NATO's permission because that's how NATO works, but it doesn't need Russian permission
- dnh44 4y ago>Ukraine has inherent freedom to join NATO. >It needs NATO's permission because that's how NATO works Sorry to be a pedantic asshole but those statements are in opposition to each other. What you want to say is that they should they should have the freedom to apply and join if accepted. >but it doesn't need Russian permission In an ideal world they shouldn't need Russian permission, unfortunately we seem to live in a world where might makes right.