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> We should all be lobbying for a large neutral buffer zone between US-aligned Europe and Russia, not expanding the alliance designed to destroy Russia towards
by The_Colonel 4y ago
> We should all be lobbying for a large neutral buffer zone between US-aligned Europe and Russia, not expanding the alliance designed to destroy Russia towards Moscow.
Ukraine was neutral before 2014, somehow it didn't help. It didn't get invaded because they were about to join NATO, but because they started to orient themselves to the EU.
What you actually argue for, and what Putin is after, is to let Russia re-build its satellite system of countries dependent on Russia.
- dnh44 4y agoThe NATO Bucharest Declaration of 2008 mentioned Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO.
- The_Colonel 4y agoAgain, Ukraine was nowhere near to joining NATO in 2008, 2014 or 2022.
- dnh44 4y agoI never said it was close. You seemed to put the demarcation date for the discussion of it joining at 2014 but it started before that. I simply wanted to add more information to the discussion.
- blub 4y agoAFAIK the reason why Ukraine wasn’t invited to join back then were objections from France and Germany. The US were courting them and lobbying for them to join. This is a classic escalation spiral, where flirtations between Ukraine and NATO triggered Russian aggression which in turn intensified the collaboration of NATO and Ukraine. And so on and so forth.
- The_Colonel 4y agoNothing NATO related happened in 2013/2014 which would trigger the invasion. People keep ignoring the fact that from the Russian side this is not (just) about security/NATO, but about the larger goal of keeping CEE (and specifically Ukraine) within its sphere of control.
- blub 4y agoFirst you said they were neutral, then I pointed out that they were courted by the US. 2014 was when Ukraine clearly changed its alignment to the West, which triggered Crimea. It’s about several things, agreed.