4 ms·

> We’re left with the Scala FP communities, which yield awesome libraries and are awesome people, but the ecosystem is essentially a microcosm of the US politic

> We’re left with the Scala FP communities, which yield awesome libraries and are awesome people, but the ecosystem is essentially a microcosm of the US political landscape. This sentence puzzles me. Does anybody know what the author could have meant with it? As a European Scala FP programmer, I have no idea.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
Typelevel vs ZIO (John DeGoes) drama? Allegations against Jon Pretty?
groby_b 4y ago
If you click on the "Politics" tag (which the author has attached to the article...), you'll quickly learn why. They are a fan of free speech == unrestricted speech. Most larger ecosystems these days have a code of conduct, restricting some forms of expression if they are deemed detrimental to the community. Something that very much riles advocates of unrestricted speech. Often, having a code of conduct is conflated with social justice activism - a movement that is prominently lamented in US politics more so than Europe. Note: I'm not interested in debating which side is right here, or if that conflating of positions makes sense. Just pointing out the likely origin of the "microcosm" comment.
- phillipcarter 4y ago
  There's a lot of players involved in the Scala OSS drama. You can read about it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/scala/comments/9a11p1/newbie_wondering_about_the_history_of_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/scala/comments/9a11p1/newbie_wonder... Suffice to say there's a lot of people at each others' throats, and it probably won't get better.
  - sp33der89 4y ago
    That thread is 4 years old...I wouldn't say that's reflective of the current situation, nor do I find "probably won't get better" a great take, because the Scala OSS situation tries to not-repeat-mistakes. Hell the worst thing the Scala Discord deals with it are spambots!
    - phillipcarter 4y ago
      Well, since then various factions that emerged have only come to hate each other more, a prominent "middle ground" member of the community disappeared after accusations that he was a sexual abuser, and the ecosystem seems to have firmly split between Zio and Cats, so I wouldn't exactly say things have gotten better.
      - sp33der89 4y ago
        > since then various factions that emerged have only come to hate each other more There are (recent) threads out there on the interwebs were people suggest using Cats Effect or ZIO(or as a better Python) without it being hateful. And there are enough people not going at each other because of some effect library. I am not saying everything is good, there is enough room for improvement, but I feel like you have an outdated view of the Scala ecosystem. For example "ecosystem firmly split between ZIO and Cats" doesn't ring true either, there are tools/libraries like, scala-cli and Mill or tapir coming out that offer a more pragmatic experience, without locking you down to the pure FP dogmatism. > a prominent "middle ground" member of the community disappeared after accusations that he was a sexual abuser Yes, this stirred up a lot of controversy and I found this indeed a failure of the Scala community, I don't think that means things haven't gotten better though.
malcolmgreaves 4y ago
tl;dr Some of the notable FP people in the Scala ecosystem associate with known white supremacists and support them. [1] When confronted, this small subset of Scala folk decided to side with supporting the white supremacists because they aren't personally negatively affected by racism as they're white themselves. This small group of prominent Scala folk bifurcated the Scala community. They then went on to gaslight others by claiming this is "free speech" (it's not) and causing conflict. The Scala community responded by adding codes of conduct to various conferences and OSS projects, which compel members to act morally. [1] http://meta.plasm.us/posts/2020/07/25/response-to-john-de-goes/ http://meta.plasm.us/posts/2020/07/25/response-to-john-de-go...
- lliamander 4y ago
  This is a bunch of disingenuous, guilt-by-association, kafka-esque nonsense. For instance, defending someone against the charge of white supremacy is clearly not the same thing as defending white supremacists. That neither you nor the article you linked bothered to acknowledge that distinction is quite damning of your ability to think critically.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago

Typelevel vs ZIO (John DeGoes) drama? Allegations against Jon Pretty?

groby_b 4y ago

If you click on the "Politics" tag (which the author has attached to the article...), you'll quickly learn why. They are a fan of free speech == unrestricted speech. Most larger ecosystems these days have a code of conduct, restricting some forms of expression if they are deemed detrimental to the community. Something that very much riles advocates of unrestricted speech. Often, having a code of conduct is conflated with social justice activism - a movement that is prominently lamented in US politics more so than Europe. Note: I'm not interested in debating which side is right here, or if that conflating of positions makes sense. Just pointing out the likely origin of the "microcosm" comment.

phillipcarter 4y ago
There's a lot of players involved in the Scala OSS drama. You can read about it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/scala/comments/9a11p1/newbie_wondering_about_the_history_of_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/scala/comments/9a11p1/newbie_wonder... Suffice to say there's a lot of people at each others' throats, and it probably won't get better.
- sp33der89 4y ago
  That thread is 4 years old...I wouldn't say that's reflective of the current situation, nor do I find "probably won't get better" a great take, because the Scala OSS situation tries to not-repeat-mistakes. Hell the worst thing the Scala Discord deals with it are spambots!
  - phillipcarter 4y ago
    Well, since then various factions that emerged have only come to hate each other more, a prominent "middle ground" member of the community disappeared after accusations that he was a sexual abuser, and the ecosystem seems to have firmly split between Zio and Cats, so I wouldn't exactly say things have gotten better.
    - sp33der89 4y ago
      > since then various factions that emerged have only come to hate each other more There are (recent) threads out there on the interwebs were people suggest using Cats Effect or ZIO(or as a better Python) without it being hateful. And there are enough people not going at each other because of some effect library. I am not saying everything is good, there is enough room for improvement, but I feel like you have an outdated view of the Scala ecosystem. For example "ecosystem firmly split between ZIO and Cats" doesn't ring true either, there are tools/libraries like, scala-cli and Mill or tapir coming out that offer a more pragmatic experience, without locking you down to the pure FP dogmatism. > a prominent "middle ground" member of the community disappeared after accusations that he was a sexual abuser Yes, this stirred up a lot of controversy and I found this indeed a failure of the Scala community, I don't think that means things haven't gotten better though.

malcolmgreaves 4y ago

tl;dr Some of the notable FP people in the Scala ecosystem associate with known white supremacists and support them. [1] When confronted, this small subset of Scala folk decided to side with supporting the white supremacists because they aren't personally negatively affected by racism as they're white themselves. This small group of prominent Scala folk bifurcated the Scala community. They then went on to gaslight others by claiming this is "free speech" (it's not) and causing conflict. The Scala community responded by adding codes of conduct to various conferences and OSS projects, which compel members to act morally. [1] http://meta.plasm.us/posts/2020/07/25/response-to-john-de-goes/ http://meta.plasm.us/posts/2020/07/25/response-to-john-de-go...

lliamander 4y ago
This is a bunch of disingenuous, guilt-by-association, kafka-esque nonsense. For instance, defending someone against the charge of white supremacy is clearly not the same thing as defending white supremacists. That neither you nor the article you linked bothered to acknowledge that distinction is quite damning of your ability to think critically.