4 ms·

>Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to be properly dangerous and fire departments make noises about them but offer no solutions. A suitable fireproof c

>Ebike and drone batteries are large enough to be properly dangerous and fire departments make noises about them but offer no solutions. A suitable fireproof containment bag + fire-resistant gloves is about $1200 AUD (Brimstone Preventer [1], but I'm sure alternatives are available. This one is small phone/tablet sized and rated for 10k mAh). But most people won't purchase a < $100 fire extinguisher, let alone a battery fire containment device. >A fire extinguisher large enough for a 500wh battery weighs 12 kilos - most people can barely lift that! SafeWork Australia (our national OSHA body) recommend loads be kept below about ~16 to 20kg for a single person without mechanical assistance[2] (or up to 55kg with), and most packaging for heavy boxes recommends two person lift starting around 25 to 36kg. 12kg should be trivial for most adults. [1] https://www.powdersafe.com.au/fire-containment-bag-small-tablet-phone https://www.powdersafe.com.au/fire-containment-bag-small-tab... [2] https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/system/files/documents/1702/nationalcodeofpractice_manualhandling_nohsc2005-1990_archivepdf.pdf https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/system/files/documents/...

blub 4y ago
Yes, proper ones are super-expensive. I’ve seen people also use ammo cases with vents cut out, but those won’t stop gases and might actually inadvertently function as a flame thrower.
jaclaz 4y ago
The standard weight (derived by US NIOSH studies) that can be lifted in workplaces is 30 kg, hence most heavy packages are 25 kg (think of a bag of cement/plaster/etc.) in most EU, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31465982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31465982
zenexer 4y ago
> This Bag Has Contained 10,000 mAh Thermal Runaway Events. Is it just me, or is their choice to use mAh—a meaningless unit in this context—a major red flag? Five figures for a bag, and they can’t even get their units right? Is there some “standard voltage” of which I’m not aware? > Our bags were tested on 4 separate occasions with an overheated laptop, each containing a 3,500mAh - 4500mAh Lithium-Ion battery. The computers melted and burned during these 1 hour tests. The bags showed zero exterior damage. The pull over flaps combined with our carbon liner also absorbed a significant amount of smoke. That’s meaningless unless we know the voltage. Amp-hours don’t measure energy. > Tests were conducted with an overheated laptop and cell phone battery (combined capacity of 8,000 mAh- twice as much power as a typical laptop). Our bag passed this test with 100% containment. Amp-hours don’t measure power—that’d be watts. Neither are measures of energy. This is misleading at best. Maybe I’m being pedantic, but if I’m paying five figures for a bag and trusting my life with this company, I think it’s fair to expect technical correctness in the product description. This reads like a scam—maybe it isn’t, but the wording is far from reassuring.
- aidenn0 4y ago
  > Is it just me, or is their choice to use mAh—a meaningless unit in this context—a major red flag? Five figures for a bag, and they can’t even get their units right? Is there some “standard voltage” of which I’m not aware? Most lithium-based rechargeable cells are nominally between 3.2 and 3.8 volts and are rated in mAh[1]. I would much prefer that they were rated in watt-hours, but they are not. 1: I've seen LMOs with nominal voltages as high as 3.8; LiFePO4 are Nominally 3.2; I think there are some exotic electrode chemistries that are nominally under 3V, but 3.2-3.8 is a fairly solid range for the nominal voltage; voltages at full charge and "empty" will be higher and lower respectively.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> But most people won't purchase a < $100 fire extinguisher, let alone a battery fire containment device. $1,100 to contain fire from a phone? No-one is buying it because that's is a terrible deal! An E-bike battery is like 20x larger, is a containment for e-bike going to cost as much as a car? But yeah let's blame the consumer, the industry can't be at fault! Also I had a fire extinguisher, they have an expiration date and now I don't have one.

blub 4y ago

Yes, proper ones are super-expensive. I’ve seen people also use ammo cases with vents cut out, but those won’t stop gases and might actually inadvertently function as a flame thrower.

jaclaz 4y ago

The standard weight (derived by US NIOSH studies) that can be lifted in workplaces is 30 kg, hence most heavy packages are 25 kg (think of a bag of cement/plaster/etc.) in most EU, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31465982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31465982

zenexer 4y ago

> This Bag Has Contained 10,000 mAh Thermal Runaway Events. Is it just me, or is their choice to use mAh—a meaningless unit in this context—a major red flag? Five figures for a bag, and they can’t even get their units right? Is there some “standard voltage” of which I’m not aware? > Our bags were tested on 4 separate occasions with an overheated laptop, each containing a 3,500mAh - 4500mAh Lithium-Ion battery. The computers melted and burned during these 1 hour tests. The bags showed zero exterior damage. The pull over flaps combined with our carbon liner also absorbed a significant amount of smoke. That’s meaningless unless we know the voltage. Amp-hours don’t measure energy. > Tests were conducted with an overheated laptop and cell phone battery (combined capacity of 8,000 mAh- twice as much power as a typical laptop). Our bag passed this test with 100% containment. Amp-hours don’t measure power—that’d be watts. Neither are measures of energy. This is misleading at best. Maybe I’m being pedantic, but if I’m paying five figures for a bag and trusting my life with this company, I think it’s fair to expect technical correctness in the product description. This reads like a scam—maybe it isn’t, but the wording is far from reassuring.

aidenn0 4y ago
> Is it just me, or is their choice to use mAh—a meaningless unit in this context—a major red flag? Five figures for a bag, and they can’t even get their units right? Is there some “standard voltage” of which I’m not aware? Most lithium-based rechargeable cells are nominally between 3.2 and 3.8 volts and are rated in mAh[1]. I would much prefer that they were rated in watt-hours, but they are not. 1: I've seen LMOs with nominal voltages as high as 3.8; LiFePO4 are Nominally 3.2; I think there are some exotic electrode chemistries that are nominally under 3V, but 3.2-3.8 is a fairly solid range for the nominal voltage; voltages at full charge and "empty" will be higher and lower respectively.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> But most people won't purchase a < $100 fire extinguisher, let alone a battery fire containment device. $1,100 to contain fire from a phone? No-one is buying it because that's is a terrible deal! An E-bike battery is like 20x larger, is a containment for e-bike going to cost as much as a car? But yeah let's blame the consumer, the industry can't be at fault! Also I had a fire extinguisher, they have an expiration date and now I don't have one.