5 ms·

Why can’t the parks use electronic means? I can think of a few solutions using connected bins. 1. Have a QR code printed on the bin that simply leads to a webs

by _ytxa 4y ago

Why can’t the parks use electronic means? I can think of a few solutions using connected bins. 1. Have a QR code printed on the bin that simply leads to a website that temporarily toggles the bin to an open state when a button is clicked. 2. Humans can read, bears cannot. Print out simple instructions with a key code, like they have at Starbucks coffee shops for bathroom access.

icelancer 4y ago
Because that was written in 2006, referencing something from much earlier than that?
danbruc 4y ago
A website to open a garbage bin? Seriously?
- moonchrome 4y ago
  Web developer spotted :) I'm sure there will be a ML guy here telling us we could train a NN to recognize bears on the camera and lock the bins (will probably lock out the bins whenever a child brings a teddy bear toy/shirt and or randomly at a small enough percentage that it will annoy people but won't be worth fixing)
  - rypskar 4y ago
    So that is why lecture 2 in the fast.ai course is a bear detector that also can detect if it is a real bear or a teddy bear https://github.com/fastai/fastbook/blob/master/02_production.ipynb https://github.com/fastai/fastbook/blob/master/02_production...
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  When all you have is JavaScript, every problem looks like a website.
EGreg 4y ago
How do you know that a desperate mama bear can't learn to read? https://theconversation.com/can-crows-read-3740 https://theconversation.com/can-crows-read-3740 hehehehehe
- orthoxerox 4y ago
  That's not reading, though. My son can do what these crows can: associate familiar symbols with some concept: "green cross" means pharmacy, "Auchan" means the big shop with carts. However, he is disabled and can't read in the sense of "process novel information provided in textual form".
donkarma 4y ago
bee_rider 4y ago
Depends on the park, I guess. Any electronic system will definitely require electricity, at least! Involving a QR code and a website seems to add a lot of complexity (what if the camper's phone is out of juice, what if they just have a flip phone, what if they just didn't bring their phone with them to the garbage? Plus we'll need a network connection). An electronic keypad might work, still need electricity but it is a lot simpler. IMO you'd want something that doesn't require even simple written instructions -- I mean rarely, but still occasionally you might get a visitor with limited English literacy (people from other countries, etc). But a keypad with a number over printed above it should be kind of obvious... or a combination lock with the same. Although you'll always get somebody who doesn't make the link.
- orthoxerox 4y ago
  > An electronic keypad might work, still need electricity but it is a lot simpler. There are mechanical keypads where you have to press three buttons simultaneously. > Although you'll always get somebody who doesn't make the link. I once came home to see the apartment block superintendent overseeing the installation of a new mechanical keypad. The door was covered with sticky notes saying "130" over and over again, but I still almost asked him what the new code was going to be.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    >> An electronic keypad might work, still need electricity but it is a lot simpler. [...] or a combination lock [...] > There are mechanical keypads where you have to press three buttons simultaneously. The combination lock has the benefit of being a little more familiar. >> Although you'll always get somebody who doesn't make the link. > I once came home to see the apartment block superintendent overseeing the installation of a new mechanical keypad. The door was covered with sticky notes saying "130" over and over again, but I still almost asked him what the new code was going to be. It makes sense that you'd be confused -- what's the point of a keypad with the combination on the door? Unless bears are breaking into the apartment! This does seem to indicate a problem with the keypad/combination lock idea though. Since most people are familiar with them as a form of human-blocking access control, they might not assume the number above is the password (somebody might think it is an ID number for the garbage can, for example).
smcl 4y ago
Falsehoods programmers believe about visitors to national parks: 1. everyone has a phone that has a camera 2. everyone has a phone that has internet access 3. everyone's internet access works at all times 4. everyone's phone has charge at all times ... etc Sorry that was a bit mean but I couldn't help it :) If you're not familiar with the format, there's a number of "falsehoods programmers believe about X" articles, for example: - https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-... - https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/ https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-a... For what it's worth I don't think it's a huge ask to request visitors to carry their rubbish away with them when they visit somewhere like this. If you managed to bring it out there you can surely take it back.
- mellavora 4y ago
  I saw this as a fun in-joke, not mean. And you gave the hint to bring the rest into the joke.
- Sharlin 4y ago
  National parks in particular are typically not known to be in places that have a great cellular reception.
- alexvoda 4y ago
  Maybe, but I think it was delightful.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  5. The system can run autonomously for any length of time. 6. A tech worker can be on site in short order to repair it when it phones home to report that it has malfunctioned. 7. Vandalism is not common and not particularly attracted to electronic devices. ... etc > For what it's worth I don't think it's a huge ask to request visitors to carry their rubbish away with them when they visit somewhere like this. If you managed to bring it out there you can surely take it back. Yet more falsehoods programmers believe about visitors to national parks: 1. That refraining from throwing their trash around is not a huge ask for some of them. ...
dspillett 4y ago
> Why can’t the parks use electronic means? Right now? Cost to implement and maintain. Who is going to fund it? Back in the 80s when this story & quote comes from? Money may have been relatively flush then, but the tech was not available (at least not in a form that could be realistically rolled out park-wide) no matter the funds offered.
Animats 4y ago
Now that's over-complication. The practical solution to this is based on humans having multiple long fingers, which bears do not have.[1] [1] https://bearsaver.com/collections/bear-resistant-food-storage-lockers https://bearsaver.com/collections/bear-resistant-food-storag...
bagels 4y ago
That seems like a good way to have people leave trash next to the trash can.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
We have underground trash bins that need a keycard to unlock and open and are designed in such a way that you can't reach in when it's opened; something like that, maybe with a camera with basic facial / human detection. But nothing internet connected or requiring people's electronics, they go there to escape from that.
ballenf 4y ago
Because a prankster will replace the QR code with one that pops open a different can just behind you. Hopefully it's on a timer and closes just before you can get there for maximum fun.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> Have a QR code printed on the bin that simply leads to a website This comment is the perfect specimen of why our industry is a fucking joke. It should be illegal for us to call ourselves engineers. This is how a vending machine that takes coins gets replaced by a vending machine that requires internet, a smartphone, two apps and three passwords to buy a water bottle. This is how you get critical infrastructure like elevators where display showing floor number lags (!), it needs wifi and the elevator goes down for software updates.
xani_ 4y ago
Someone arguing for trashcan needing internet connection and power in middle of forest... ... you know that, fuck this, go ahead and pitch it to some silicon valley VC, I'm sure someone will take a bait
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  I mean, the city I live in spent an absurd amount of money installing the latest and greatest solar powered, WiFi enabled, somewhat compacting garbage cans. So there's clearly a market for smart bins.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by _ytxa 4y ago

icelancer 4y ago

Because that was written in 2006, referencing something from much earlier than that?

danbruc 4y ago

A website to open a garbage bin? Seriously?

moonchrome 4y ago
Web developer spotted :) I'm sure there will be a ML guy here telling us we could train a NN to recognize bears on the camera and lock the bins (will probably lock out the bins whenever a child brings a teddy bear toy/shirt and or randomly at a small enough percentage that it will annoy people but won't be worth fixing)
- rypskar 4y ago
  So that is why lecture 2 in the fast.ai course is a bear detector that also can detect if it is a real bear or a teddy bear https://github.com/fastai/fastbook/blob/master/02_production.ipynb https://github.com/fastai/fastbook/blob/master/02_production...
Dalewyn 4y ago
When all you have is JavaScript, every problem looks like a website.

EGreg 4y ago

How do you know that a desperate mama bear can't learn to read? https://theconversation.com/can-crows-read-3740 https://theconversation.com/can-crows-read-3740 hehehehehe

orthoxerox 4y ago
That's not reading, though. My son can do what these crows can: associate familiar symbols with some concept: "green cross" means pharmacy, "Auchan" means the big shop with carts. However, he is disabled and can't read in the sense of "process novel information provided in textual form".

donkarma 4y ago

bee_rider 4y ago

Depends on the park, I guess. Any electronic system will definitely require electricity, at least! Involving a QR code and a website seems to add a lot of complexity (what if the camper's phone is out of juice, what if they just have a flip phone, what if they just didn't bring their phone with them to the garbage? Plus we'll need a network connection). An electronic keypad might work, still need electricity but it is a lot simpler. IMO you'd want something that doesn't require even simple written instructions -- I mean rarely, but still occasionally you might get a visitor with limited English literacy (people from other countries, etc). But a keypad with a number over printed above it should be kind of obvious... or a combination lock with the same. Although you'll always get somebody who doesn't make the link.

orthoxerox 4y ago
> An electronic keypad might work, still need electricity but it is a lot simpler. There are mechanical keypads where you have to press three buttons simultaneously. > Although you'll always get somebody who doesn't make the link. I once came home to see the apartment block superintendent overseeing the installation of a new mechanical keypad. The door was covered with sticky notes saying "130" over and over again, but I still almost asked him what the new code was going to be.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  >> An electronic keypad might work, still need electricity but it is a lot simpler. [...] or a combination lock [...] > There are mechanical keypads where you have to press three buttons simultaneously. The combination lock has the benefit of being a little more familiar. >> Although you'll always get somebody who doesn't make the link. > I once came home to see the apartment block superintendent overseeing the installation of a new mechanical keypad. The door was covered with sticky notes saying "130" over and over again, but I still almost asked him what the new code was going to be. It makes sense that you'd be confused -- what's the point of a keypad with the combination on the door? Unless bears are breaking into the apartment! This does seem to indicate a problem with the keypad/combination lock idea though. Since most people are familiar with them as a form of human-blocking access control, they might not assume the number above is the password (somebody might think it is an ID number for the garbage can, for example).

smcl 4y ago

Falsehoods programmers believe about visitors to national parks: 1. everyone has a phone that has a camera 2. everyone has a phone that has internet access 3. everyone's internet access works at all times 4. everyone's phone has charge at all times ... etc Sorry that was a bit mean but I couldn't help it :) If you're not familiar with the format, there's a number of "falsehoods programmers believe about X" articles, for example: - https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-... - https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/ https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-a... For what it's worth I don't think it's a huge ask to request visitors to carry their rubbish away with them when they visit somewhere like this. If you managed to bring it out there you can surely take it back.

mellavora 4y ago
I saw this as a fun in-joke, not mean. And you gave the hint to bring the rest into the joke.
Sharlin 4y ago
National parks in particular are typically not known to be in places that have a great cellular reception.
alexvoda 4y ago
Maybe, but I think it was delightful.
throwawaylinux 4y ago
5. The system can run autonomously for any length of time. 6. A tech worker can be on site in short order to repair it when it phones home to report that it has malfunctioned. 7. Vandalism is not common and not particularly attracted to electronic devices. ... etc > For what it's worth I don't think it's a huge ask to request visitors to carry their rubbish away with them when they visit somewhere like this. If you managed to bring it out there you can surely take it back. Yet more falsehoods programmers believe about visitors to national parks: 1. That refraining from throwing their trash around is not a huge ask for some of them. ...

dspillett 4y ago

> Why can’t the parks use electronic means? Right now? Cost to implement and maintain. Who is going to fund it? Back in the 80s when this story & quote comes from? Money may have been relatively flush then, but the tech was not available (at least not in a form that could be realistically rolled out park-wide) no matter the funds offered.

Animats 4y ago

Now that's over-complication. The practical solution to this is based on humans having multiple long fingers, which bears do not have.[1] [1] https://bearsaver.com/collections/bear-resistant-food-storage-lockers https://bearsaver.com/collections/bear-resistant-food-storag...

bagels 4y ago

That seems like a good way to have people leave trash next to the trash can.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

We have underground trash bins that need a keycard to unlock and open and are designed in such a way that you can't reach in when it's opened; something like that, maybe with a camera with basic facial / human detection. But nothing internet connected or requiring people's electronics, they go there to escape from that.

ballenf 4y ago

Because a prankster will replace the QR code with one that pops open a different can just behind you. Hopefully it's on a timer and closes just before you can get there for maximum fun.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> Have a QR code printed on the bin that simply leads to a website This comment is the perfect specimen of why our industry is a fucking joke. It should be illegal for us to call ourselves engineers. This is how a vending machine that takes coins gets replaced by a vending machine that requires internet, a smartphone, two apps and three passwords to buy a water bottle. This is how you get critical infrastructure like elevators where display showing floor number lags (!), it needs wifi and the elevator goes down for software updates.

xani_ 4y ago

Someone arguing for trashcan needing internet connection and power in middle of forest... ... you know that, fuck this, go ahead and pitch it to some silicon valley VC, I'm sure someone will take a bait

nibbleshifter 4y ago
I mean, the city I live in spent an absurd amount of money installing the latest and greatest solar powered, WiFi enabled, somewhat compacting garbage cans. So there's clearly a market for smart bins.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]