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> I asked to give some measures of animal suffering, if you are talking about reducing animal cruelty so why so-called cruelty is bad? Seriously, do we need a

> I asked to give some measures of animal suffering, if you are talking about reducing animal cruelty so why so-called cruelty is bad? Seriously, do we need a long and boring thread about existentialism to understand something, (and i’m gonna have throw a figurative number I clarify it before you ask me to cite the source) 90% of the civilized world agrees is bad? I guess not, so I’m gonna explain it like you’re 5: “Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you.” As simple as that. As for the car, what would you say anybody can do tomorrow no matter what they do for a living or how much they earn, give up their car or change to a plant-based lifestyle?

eimrine 4y ago
> 90% of the civilized world agrees is bad? 90% of people with higher education do not understand logarithms, consider astrology and/or religion as a working thing, etc. Science remembers some cases when 99.999% of civilized world used to be wrong about something. > Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you. Cattle is not "others", they are way closer to things then to people. They do not understand conception of self and death, they will not grieve seeing death of their friends or relatives, they will never write a "Romeo and Juliet". Don't you consider a potato as that kind "others"? But if you throw a potato not in a boiling water but in a wet ground it will be possible to see that potato is a living thing. I agree when somebody is talking about climate impact or health of a diet. But when, after hours of manual labor in an unheated workshop, I go on my lunch break, I read about the suffering of animals with such loud laughter that I can't believe that anyone is talking about it seriously. > As for the car, what would you say anybody can do tomorrow no matter what they do for a living or how much they earn, give up their car or change to a plant-based lifestyle? The Lindy effect?
- neuralRiot 4y ago
  >They do not understand conception of self and death, they will not grieve seeing death of their friends or relatives, they will never write a "Romeo and Juliet". Then torturing, killing, and eating babies and mentally disabled people is OK in your book? If you would take 5 minutes to read about animal behavior you'll understand how far off are your concepts. >But when, after hours of manual labor in an unheated workshop, I go on my lunch break, I read about the suffering of animals with such loud laughter that I can't believe that anyone is talking about it seriously. Is somebody else forcing you into that position?
  - eimrine 4y ago
    > They do not understand conception of self and death, they will not grieve seeing death of their friends or relatives, they will never write a "Romeo and Juliet". No because it might write another "Romeo and Juliett" or prove Riemann hypothesis you know what I mean. One mentally disabled man even won a Noble for invention of the Game Theory part of Mathematics. > Is somebody else forcing you into that position? In my mother language there is an idiom "hunger is not an aunt". > If you would take 5 minutes to read about animal behavior you'll understand how far off are your concepts. Give me some proves, please.
    - neuralRiot 4y ago
      https://www.animalbehaviorandcognition.org/uploads/journals/17/AB&C_2017_Vol4(4)_Marino_Allen.pdf https://www.animalbehaviorandcognition.org/uploads/journals/...
      - eimrine 4y ago
        They use to have pretty nice intelligence, almost on dogs' or horses' level. After reading this work I am sure a cow can suffer, in our understanding of suffering, especially if killing is going to be slow and torturous. But you can not disagree that if killing is going using halal protocol then a cow does not suffer, because blood just leaves the body and cow go to sleep. I am not sure cows I use to eat were killed in full-halal with pleas to some local gods, but I am sure nobody wants to be evil to his meat, that's why I believe all the important parts of halal approach has been met for every animal I ate. When I kill some chicken on my farm I always do it in one move, they do not yell from pain (as they can) so I never consider them suffering. That's why assumptions about animals from city people who do not live with animals every single day will never meet a decent response from me, you are so far away from animals' real life, your statement can not deliver me nothing except laughs. Last but not least, I am not going to persuade you for obvious reasons.

eimrine 4y ago

> 90% of the civilized world agrees is bad? 90% of people with higher education do not understand logarithms, consider astrology and/or religion as a working thing, etc. Science remembers some cases when 99.999% of civilized world used to be wrong about something. > Don't do unto others what you don't want done unto you. Cattle is not "others", they are way closer to things then to people. They do not understand conception of self and death, they will not grieve seeing death of their friends or relatives, they will never write a "Romeo and Juliet". Don't you consider a potato as that kind "others"? But if you throw a potato not in a boiling water but in a wet ground it will be possible to see that potato is a living thing. I agree when somebody is talking about climate impact or health of a diet. But when, after hours of manual labor in an unheated workshop, I go on my lunch break, I read about the suffering of animals with such loud laughter that I can't believe that anyone is talking about it seriously. > As for the car, what would you say anybody can do tomorrow no matter what they do for a living or how much they earn, give up their car or change to a plant-based lifestyle? The Lindy effect?

neuralRiot 4y ago
>They do not understand conception of self and death, they will not grieve seeing death of their friends or relatives, they will never write a "Romeo and Juliet". Then torturing, killing, and eating babies and mentally disabled people is OK in your book? If you would take 5 minutes to read about animal behavior you'll understand how far off are your concepts. >But when, after hours of manual labor in an unheated workshop, I go on my lunch break, I read about the suffering of animals with such loud laughter that I can't believe that anyone is talking about it seriously. Is somebody else forcing you into that position?
- eimrine 4y ago
  > They do not understand conception of self and death, they will not grieve seeing death of their friends or relatives, they will never write a "Romeo and Juliet". No because it might write another "Romeo and Juliett" or prove Riemann hypothesis you know what I mean. One mentally disabled man even won a Noble for invention of the Game Theory part of Mathematics. > Is somebody else forcing you into that position? In my mother language there is an idiom "hunger is not an aunt". > If you would take 5 minutes to read about animal behavior you'll understand how far off are your concepts. Give me some proves, please.
  - neuralRiot 4y ago
    https://www.animalbehaviorandcognition.org/uploads/journals/17/AB&C_2017_Vol4(4)_Marino_Allen.pdf https://www.animalbehaviorandcognition.org/uploads/journals/...
    - eimrine 4y ago
      They use to have pretty nice intelligence, almost on dogs' or horses' level. After reading this work I am sure a cow can suffer, in our understanding of suffering, especially if killing is going to be slow and torturous. But you can not disagree that if killing is going using halal protocol then a cow does not suffer, because blood just leaves the body and cow go to sleep. I am not sure cows I use to eat were killed in full-halal with pleas to some local gods, but I am sure nobody wants to be evil to his meat, that's why I believe all the important parts of halal approach has been met for every animal I ate. When I kill some chicken on my farm I always do it in one move, they do not yell from pain (as they can) so I never consider them suffering. That's why assumptions about animals from city people who do not live with animals every single day will never meet a decent response from me, you are so far away from animals' real life, your statement can not deliver me nothing except laughs. Last but not least, I am not going to persuade you for obvious reasons.