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Funny, you just explained how easy it was. But now it's so hard that Apple engineers can't just rebuild the parts they need? I think the simpler explanation is

Funny, you just explained how easy it was. But now it's so hard that Apple engineers can't just rebuild the parts they need? I think the simpler explanation is one you'll find in many comments here: Dark Sky was unusually good, and Apple bought it to get all that goodness to themselves.

TillE 4y ago
This is just asking why acquisitions happen. There are plenty of reasons, and they typically don't demonstrate monopolistic behavior, certainly not in any legal sense.
- wpietri 4y ago
  Except for the sense where it's an anti-consumer concentration of market power. Something Apple is fond of. [1] Is this particular action currently illegal? Probably not, because in the US we're in an era of extreme friendliness toward companies from anti-trust regulators. But that doesn't mean no reasonable market regulator would ever frown on acquisitions like this. [1] E.g.: https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/8/23343336/apple-tim-cook-imessage-blue-green-bubbles-texting-rcs https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/8/23343336/apple-tim-cook-im...
  - abduhl 4y ago
    How is it anti consumer? What harm has a consumer suffered? It seems like your only answer to this is “there’s less weather apps”? If your viewpoint were the one used for antitrust then no acquisition ever would be acceptable.
    - wrycoder 4y ago
      Many people love Dark Sky, and Apple simply killed it.
      - wpietri 4y ago
        Exactly. Comments here show that people had a good thing. Apple took it away from them to get a competitive advantage.
        abduhl 4y ago
        What did Apple take away here? The app icon? Android support has been gone since 2020 and most (all?) of the features of Dark Sky are integrated (and enhanced apparently) into iOS 16. So you have a situation where all the people that "had a good thing" now have it by default without an extra app they have to click on and now more people will have that good thing by default for free. If anything, this is anti-anti-competitive behavior because it's PRO-consumer. Apple is literally giving away a $4 app that was previously available ONLY to iOS users to all iOS 16 users. If this is anti-consumer in your mind I would really like to hear what acquisition is not an antitrust problem from your perspective.
        blue_cookeh 4y ago
        Android support was killed post Apple purchase so I'm confused as to how you could possibly _not_ see this as anticonsumer. Apple purchased Dark Sky and then they proceeded to remove access to it for the majority of the world's mobile users.
        fileyfood500 4y ago
        Apple produced a weather app and bought out a leading competitor. This hurts the consumer because there is a loss of consumer choice and competition in the space. In a related vein, it's exciting that Apple is investing in Apple Maps as a competitor to Google Maps, especially since Google bought out Waze a few years ago.
  - spaghettiToy 4y ago
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So exactly what Anti trust regulations are they guilty of when they announced that they would support Android? https://www.androidpolice.com/dark-sky-api-android-weatherkit/ https://www.androidpolice.com/dark-sky-api-android-weatherki...
    - wpietri 4y ago
      Be honest: would you start an Android weather app that's totally dependent on Apple's goodwill?
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Apple has had a public documented API for its podcast directory since 2005. Would I be better off dependent on Google? A company that has the attention span of a crack addle flea? Would I be better off depending on a small private company?
freetime2 4y ago
> Funny, you just explained how easy it was. But now it's so hard that Apple engineers can't just rebuild the parts they need? The parent said that the data Dark Sky uses is public and that anyone could start their own alternative. They did not claim that it would be easy to do so. They also said that it was probably cheaper for Apple to buy Dark Sky than build it themselves. That does not mean that Apple can’t build it themselves if sufficiently motivated. I don’t see any inconsistency here in the above statements.
- wyre 4y ago
  > anyone could start their own alternative. They did not claim that it would be easy to do so. Saying that anyone can accomplish a task posits some level of triviality or easiness that enables anyone to be able to accomplish it. If I say anyone can lose weight, it is safe to assume that I mean losing weight is easy enough that anyone can do it.
  - freetime2 4y ago
    > If I say anyone can lose weight, it is safe to assume that I mean losing weight is easy enough that anyone can do it. I would interpret “anyone can lose weight” to mean that anyone has the capability to lose weight, not that it is easy. On the contrary, I find losing weight to be pretty hard! I do recognize that the phrase “anyone can do x” can often carry the connotation of being easy. But it depends on context. Since we’re talking about a proprietary weather forecasting model and accompanying UI, I see no reason to assume it would be trivial. But rather that the data is available for anyone to use, should they decide to attempt to build the next Dark Sky. This is in contrast to building the next Google Maps, for example, where just getting a hold of the necessary data would probably cost a good deal of money.

TillE 4y ago

This is just asking why acquisitions happen. There are plenty of reasons, and they typically don't demonstrate monopolistic behavior, certainly not in any legal sense.

wpietri 4y ago
Except for the sense where it's an anti-consumer concentration of market power. Something Apple is fond of. [1] Is this particular action currently illegal? Probably not, because in the US we're in an era of extreme friendliness toward companies from anti-trust regulators. But that doesn't mean no reasonable market regulator would ever frown on acquisitions like this. [1] E.g.: https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/8/23343336/apple-tim-cook-imessage-blue-green-bubbles-texting-rcs https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/8/23343336/apple-tim-cook-im...
- abduhl 4y ago
  How is it anti consumer? What harm has a consumer suffered? It seems like your only answer to this is “there’s less weather apps”? If your viewpoint were the one used for antitrust then no acquisition ever would be acceptable.
  - wrycoder 4y ago
    Many people love Dark Sky, and Apple simply killed it.
    - wpietri 4y ago
      Exactly. Comments here show that people had a good thing. Apple took it away from them to get a competitive advantage.
      - abduhl 4y ago
        What did Apple take away here? The app icon? Android support has been gone since 2020 and most (all?) of the features of Dark Sky are integrated (and enhanced apparently) into iOS 16. So you have a situation where all the people that "had a good thing" now have it by default without an extra app they have to click on and now more people will have that good thing by default for free. If anything, this is anti-anti-competitive behavior because it's PRO-consumer. Apple is literally giving away a $4 app that was previously available ONLY to iOS users to all iOS 16 users. If this is anti-consumer in your mind I would really like to hear what acquisition is not an antitrust problem from your perspective.
        blue_cookeh 4y ago
        Android support was killed post Apple purchase so I'm confused as to how you could possibly _not_ see this as anticonsumer. Apple purchased Dark Sky and then they proceeded to remove access to it for the majority of the world's mobile users.
        fileyfood500 4y ago
        Apple produced a weather app and bought out a leading competitor. This hurts the consumer because there is a loss of consumer choice and competition in the space. In a related vein, it's exciting that Apple is investing in Apple Maps as a competitor to Google Maps, especially since Google bought out Waze a few years ago.
- spaghettiToy 4y ago
- scarface74 4y ago
  So exactly what Anti trust regulations are they guilty of when they announced that they would support Android? https://www.androidpolice.com/dark-sky-api-android-weatherkit/ https://www.androidpolice.com/dark-sky-api-android-weatherki...
  - wpietri 4y ago
    Be honest: would you start an Android weather app that's totally dependent on Apple's goodwill?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Apple has had a public documented API for its podcast directory since 2005. Would I be better off dependent on Google? A company that has the attention span of a crack addle flea? Would I be better off depending on a small private company?

freetime2 4y ago

> Funny, you just explained how easy it was. But now it's so hard that Apple engineers can't just rebuild the parts they need? The parent said that the data Dark Sky uses is public and that anyone could start their own alternative. They did not claim that it would be easy to do so. They also said that it was probably cheaper for Apple to buy Dark Sky than build it themselves. That does not mean that Apple can’t build it themselves if sufficiently motivated. I don’t see any inconsistency here in the above statements.

wyre 4y ago
> anyone could start their own alternative. They did not claim that it would be easy to do so. Saying that anyone can accomplish a task posits some level of triviality or easiness that enables anyone to be able to accomplish it. If I say anyone can lose weight, it is safe to assume that I mean losing weight is easy enough that anyone can do it.
- freetime2 4y ago
  > If I say anyone can lose weight, it is safe to assume that I mean losing weight is easy enough that anyone can do it. I would interpret “anyone can lose weight” to mean that anyone has the capability to lose weight, not that it is easy. On the contrary, I find losing weight to be pretty hard! I do recognize that the phrase “anyone can do x” can often carry the connotation of being easy. But it depends on context. Since we’re talking about a proprietary weather forecasting model and accompanying UI, I see no reason to assume it would be trivial. But rather that the data is available for anyone to use, should they decide to attempt to build the next Dark Sky. This is in contrast to building the next Google Maps, for example, where just getting a hold of the necessary data would probably cost a good deal of money.