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I totally agree. Stop thinking like a developer, think like a business owner. Build the MVP so that it's good enough to start solving whatever it is you're sol

by pier25 4y ago

I totally agree. Stop thinking like a developer, think like a business owner. Build the MVP so that it's good enough to start solving whatever it is you're solving and get your first customers. If you can't get customers, what's the point of having a sophisticated codebase with tests, etc?

presentation 4y ago
Not even solving, just making it sellable.
andrewstuart 4y ago
>> If you can't get customers, what's the point of having a sophisticated codebase with tests, etc? And in fact every minute spent on writing and running tests (and there's always ALOT) and CI/CD is wasted, wastes money and time, leading to longer development time until the software can be put in front of users. Therefore CI/CD and tests and all their associated processes are a red flag and increases the likelihood a startup will fail to bring its software to market. Developers who have always worked in well organised environments have really deep rooted trouble getting their head around this way of thinking. If you say to an experienced developer "no tests! no CI/CD!", it's likely they will immediately decide you are an unprofessional hack.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  I met a founder with this mentality--but the problem was, the company was no longer a start-up, he had dozens of products, many (unhappy) customers, and zero development process that wasn't "writing code". He still believed every minute you spent on writing something that was not directly shipping to customers was his money being wasted. I had to argue with him to even get source control set up (he didn't agree, and I just did it in secret at night anyway). CI/CD?? Fuggetaboutit. Releases were pulled directly off the PC of any engineer who managed to get the software built without errors that day. Yes, they were usually debug builds with symbols, and never reproducible. Needless to say, it was a clown show.
  - pier25 4y ago
    Yeah the issue is adapting to what the business needs. Once you have customers the mindset should be totally different.
jiggawatts 4y ago
I use Maslow’s Hierarchy it Needs when discussing stuff like this in my consulting gig. E.g.: it doesn’t matter what fancy SIEM tool you’re using if you never patch anything and the root password is “password”. “But the vendor assured us that it would solve our security issues!” is the inevitable reply.

by pier25 4y ago

presentation 4y ago

Not even solving, just making it sellable.

andrewstuart 4y ago

>> If you can't get customers, what's the point of having a sophisticated codebase with tests, etc? And in fact every minute spent on writing and running tests (and there's always ALOT) and CI/CD is wasted, wastes money and time, leading to longer development time until the software can be put in front of users. Therefore CI/CD and tests and all their associated processes are a red flag and increases the likelihood a startup will fail to bring its software to market. Developers who have always worked in well organised environments have really deep rooted trouble getting their head around this way of thinking. If you say to an experienced developer "no tests! no CI/CD!", it's likely they will immediately decide you are an unprofessional hack.

ryandrake 4y ago
I met a founder with this mentality--but the problem was, the company was no longer a start-up, he had dozens of products, many (unhappy) customers, and zero development process that wasn't "writing code". He still believed every minute you spent on writing something that was not directly shipping to customers was his money being wasted. I had to argue with him to even get source control set up (he didn't agree, and I just did it in secret at night anyway). CI/CD?? Fuggetaboutit. Releases were pulled directly off the PC of any engineer who managed to get the software built without errors that day. Yes, they were usually debug builds with symbols, and never reproducible. Needless to say, it was a clown show.
- pier25 4y ago
  Yeah the issue is adapting to what the business needs. Once you have customers the mindset should be totally different.

jiggawatts 4y ago

I use Maslow’s Hierarchy it Needs when discussing stuff like this in my consulting gig. E.g.: it doesn’t matter what fancy SIEM tool you’re using if you never patch anything and the root password is “password”. “But the vendor assured us that it would solve our security issues!” is the inevitable reply.