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I see this exact same comment did pretty well on Reddit too: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/xckw5v/comment/io5vgsn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium

I see this exact same comment did pretty well on Reddit too: https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/xckw5v/comment/io5vgsn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/xckw5v/comme... 1. Not all of the arrests have been made at a "funeral" 2. It wasn't a funeral 3. If you're going to have a very public precession, parading a body through the streets with all the obedients lapping it up, surely you have to have a level of tolerance for dissenting voices? I imagine the disruption this event caused on Edinburgh was pretty large... There's wall to wall coverage of this event happening worldwide right now, we need room for the dissenting voices too. Otherwise it's just outright sycophancy

deskamess 4y ago
> Otherwise it's just outright sycophancy Well... that's what the monarchy practice is all about. God-like status for some god-forsaken reason. Blind sycophancy.
- afarrell 4y ago
  It is because humans have an irrational tendency towards sycophancy. This was true throughout both the Obama and Trump administrations and before them. Better to direct that impulse towards a dignified institution that does nothing but attract tourists and occasionally signal society’s values than towards something that tries to have efficient and lethal decision-making power.
  - hahaxdxd123 4y ago
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Wait, is this satire? Surely we should resist our less productive qualities, like sycophancy. Not try to channel it to some "worthy cause".
    - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
      We can’t just snap our fingers and fix the tendencies that make us human, nor do we have the energy to resist every diversion from your perception of what is ideal. I don’t see how your view isn’t personally exhausting. And I don’t see what’s so bad about trying to channel our less productive qualities to better ends than letting them run wild and wishing they didn’t exist.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        I'm not proscribing perfection. Rather asking why can't each generation try to do better? Ideally without giving up on gains made elsewhere. And if we must channel some unavoidable desires then must it be to adore people who won life's lottery? (Or must we heap praise upon someone who appears to have done little to move the needle forward?)
        afarrell 4y ago
        If I try to see the millennial generation as a single decision-maker, I’d say it looks an awful lot like someone with multiple personalities. Solving this problem requires solving coordination problems. Solving coordination problems requires creating a sense of community where people are motivated to act beyond their self interest. Collective motivation at that level requires symbolism and ceremony tapping into the deepest familial affections of the human heart. The royal family will beat you at that game. You might choose to play a different one.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        > Collective motivation at that level requires symbolism and ceremony tapping into the deepest familial affections of the human heart. Citation needed. > The royal family will beat you at that game. You might choose to play a different one. Monarchs are born into unearned power, wealth, and privilege. They are the last people I'd consider successful at coordinating humanity for the better. Great Britain's own history is drenched in enough innocent blood. Whatever gains originated there appear largely attributable to luck and or non-royal endeavors.
ysavir 4y ago
> surely you have to have a level of tolerance for dissenting voices? To the procession or the monarchy? If you say the procession, sure. If you're talking about dissenting voices against the monarchy, I think that can be done without disrupting a memorial service.
- matthewh806 4y ago
  I would say both; you can oppose the procession itself for all of its pomp and archaic tradition at a time where the country is dealing with a cost of living crisis and also have that also be more broadly a protest against the monarchy in general. A large portion of the life of the royal family is public, even funded by the taxpayer, so to me it makes sense to allow for opposing viewpoints to be heard. Perhaps you can argue that a memorial service isn't the most appropriate time (though, I don't really subscribe to this viewpoint given just how much this memorial is rammed down our throats) to protest, I do think its where its likely to generate the most coverage. There is never going to be a more appropriate time to get people to listen Edit: Just to clarify the point further - Not all of the arrests being discussed were made in Edinburgh (where the procession took place). Its debatable how much impact a person holding a blank sign in Oxford has on the events in Edinburgh (though I would wager its infinitesimally small). Equally, holding a sign with a swearword on it doesn't really "disrupt" in any meaningful sense either. A lot of people defend the police action on the grounds that it "may" have lead to violence via provocation and the person was arrested for "their own safety", but in that case why follow through with the charge? Rather than "de-arresting" (whatever that means) afterwards
  - User23 4y ago
    That’s not how money works in the UK. The taxpayer isn’t funding the monarchy or anything else. If anything the Crown is funding the taxpayer via the Bank of England. Edit: evidently people are confused. Here it is from the horse’s mouth: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m...
    - 4y ago
ck425 4y ago
I live in Edinburgh. Can confirm major disruption and likely costs based on the sheer number of police and event staff I've seen just walking through town.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >Can confirm major disruption and likely costs based on the sheer number of police and event staff I've seen just walking through town. To be fair, when you consider that the Queen lived for 96 years and there hasn't been an event like this since 1953, the cost spread out over that much time really isn't that much. Long live the King!! (to keep costs down)
  - bogomipz 4y ago
    >"To be fair, when you consider that the Queen lived for 96 years and there hasn't been an event like this since 1953" Did you miss the whole Platinum Jubilee celebration two months ago for the Queen? [1] The scope of that was also over the top and costs 10's of millions of pounds. There was also the Saphire Jubilee 5 years ago, the Diamond Jubilee in 2012, the Golden Jubilee in 2002, there's at least a few others as well. What are the Crown Estate assets worth? How many billions? And the public are not only expected to foot the bill for this over the top pageantry but they are supposed to do so with unwavering fealty? And at a time when the average person is worried about skyrocketing inflation and energy costs? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Jubilee_of_Elizabeth_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Jubilee_of_Elizabeth_...
    - fennecfoxy 4y ago
      Based on revenue from the crown holdings, since the sovereign grant only represents a small percentage of overall revenues, much of the "public paid" money is paid back by that surplus being made available for public spending. See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sovereign-grant-act-2011-guidance/sovereign-grant-act-2011-guidance https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sovereign-grant-a... "In exchange for this public support, The Queen surrenders the revenue from The Crown Estate to the government. Over the last ten years, the revenue paid to the Exchequer is £3 billion for public spending." Basically by allowing the monarchy a fund to be used to carry out their public (and private) duties, the surplus of royal holdings revenue goes into public spending. I don't know the exact numbers but the situation is a LOT more complex than "the taxpayer pays for the monarchs, reeee".
encryptluks2 4y ago
klipklop 4y ago
Creepy that this is copypasta'ed in multiple places and is a highly upvoted comment...
- dijit 4y ago
  I copied and pasted it because it articulated what I wanted to say but was crafted better than I could have said it. Likely I should have attributed it to the source (Reddit) but it was spur of the moment on a thread with 5 comments and 3 votes. Alas.
nathanvanfleet 4y ago
You're noticing that this is copy-pasta from somewhere else. It seems credible that there might be some bad actors like with the Coronavirus or the election. But maybe I struggle to imagine how people could be so incredibly actively loyal to a royal family.
- matthewh806 4y ago
  I also don't understand the undying loyalty to the royal family either :) And I don't doubt that there are bad actors around, fanning the flames. But in this instance (and without really doing any further digging) I assumed I just came across a person who felt their comment was worthwhile enough to post in multiple places
gerdesj 4y ago
"with all the obedients lapping it up" What exactly is an "obedient"? Are you really deploying a disparaging tag on people who are mourning? That seems a bit crass to me. "we need room for the dissenting voices too" - I saw on C4 (UK TV channel) this evening, some people in Scotland describing their disaffection with the Monarchy. That's fine and quite right. I also find the sheer amount of coverage a bit overwhelming but in the end no one knows what is appropriate - it's not happened before like this - and let's face it, if you were running a TV channel or radio or whatever, you would probably err on the side of caution too unless you were decidedly commercially stupid! No one really knows what is appropriate. A lot of the ceremonies are only now being televised. I have to say that, whilst the sheer bulk of 'er Maj programmes is starting to feel a little excessive, I understand why. Some of them are pretty good too. We will pop out of the other side of this event and the world will continue to turn but we must remember that a King and his bros and moes (sorry!) and their kids and grandkids and great-grandkids have lost a pretty decent human. As have we all. They are an odd lot and they are our odd lot. If it helps, I understand that they are a net gain financially via tourism alone. Not sure how that is costed but I suspect it is probably true. It's fine to imply you prefer a republic instead or perhaps something else but why not be positive about your preferred solution instead of sniping at the current situation. What exactly do you want?
- nxmnxm99 4y ago
- antirlr 4y ago
- matthewh806 4y ago
  > What exactly is an "obedient"? Are you really deploying a disparaging tag on people who are mourning? That seems a bit crass to me. Yeah, its a crass term I will agree with you there. The public has come out in droves to support the royal family and respect the ongoing proceedings and a small number have vocally voiced their opposition to the situation and are being condemned for doing so. So, I used this charged term rather cheaply to paint with broad strokes the kind of person I imagine to lap up this unique moment. > I saw on C4 (UK TV channel) this evening, some people in Scotland describing their disaffection with the Monarchy. That's fine and quite right. Here I also agree with you that its nice to hear that C4 was airing voices of people with dissenting perspectives, but I don't necessarily think it should be confined to the TV or the internet as the "appropriate place" to air such views. I think going out and publicly protesting it is much more impactful > What exactly do you want? For people to realise that this isn't just a private occasion for immediate family to pay their respects to the recently departed. That the Royal family, for better or worse, has and continues to play a significant role in the ongoing story of this country and in having such a prominent and public position should be tolerant (even understanding?) of those who oppose, rather than to have it simply be quashed and scrubbed away
denkmoon 4y ago
>There's wall to wall coverage of this event happening worldwide right now, we need room for the dissenting voices too. Thanks to the Internet, there is ample room for all kinds of voices.
- matthewh806 4y ago
  Yes, just not on the ground where the events are literally unfolding...
stjohnswarts 4y ago
I see it as a funeral service and it is reasonable that people be respectful and protest somewhere else.
- nmstoker 4y ago
  Or some other time!
- HyperSane 4y ago
  The UK monarchy do not deserve any respect, they are elitist parasites.
petre 4y ago
If the Scottish independence referendum was called for today, after Brexit, Boris Johnson and the Queen's passing away, it would probably have an entirelly different outcome.
- scoot 4y ago
  Wait, what? Boris Johnson passed away? I know The Queen's death is overshadowing a lot of other news, but I'm surprised I hadn't heard.
  - petre 4y ago
    No, he just partied during Prince Philip's funeral, while everyone else was either in lockdown or mourning. Maybe he's patrying now, just as the late Queen is touring England.
nailer 4y ago
It’s a mourning procession. The purpose is to allow the public to mourn. Like a funeral procession without a body.

deskamess 4y ago

> Otherwise it's just outright sycophancy Well... that's what the monarchy practice is all about. God-like status for some god-forsaken reason. Blind sycophancy.

afarrell 4y ago
It is because humans have an irrational tendency towards sycophancy. This was true throughout both the Obama and Trump administrations and before them. Better to direct that impulse towards a dignified institution that does nothing but attract tourists and occasionally signal society’s values than towards something that tries to have efficient and lethal decision-making power.
- hahaxdxd123 4y ago
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Wait, is this satire? Surely we should resist our less productive qualities, like sycophancy. Not try to channel it to some "worthy cause".
  - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
    We can’t just snap our fingers and fix the tendencies that make us human, nor do we have the energy to resist every diversion from your perception of what is ideal. I don’t see how your view isn’t personally exhausting. And I don’t see what’s so bad about trying to channel our less productive qualities to better ends than letting them run wild and wishing they didn’t exist.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      I'm not proscribing perfection. Rather asking why can't each generation try to do better? Ideally without giving up on gains made elsewhere. And if we must channel some unavoidable desires then must it be to adore people who won life's lottery? (Or must we heap praise upon someone who appears to have done little to move the needle forward?)
      - afarrell 4y ago
        If I try to see the millennial generation as a single decision-maker, I’d say it looks an awful lot like someone with multiple personalities. Solving this problem requires solving coordination problems. Solving coordination problems requires creating a sense of community where people are motivated to act beyond their self interest. Collective motivation at that level requires symbolism and ceremony tapping into the deepest familial affections of the human heart. The royal family will beat you at that game. You might choose to play a different one.
        paulryanrogers 4y ago
        > Collective motivation at that level requires symbolism and ceremony tapping into the deepest familial affections of the human heart. Citation needed. > The royal family will beat you at that game. You might choose to play a different one. Monarchs are born into unearned power, wealth, and privilege. They are the last people I'd consider successful at coordinating humanity for the better. Great Britain's own history is drenched in enough innocent blood. Whatever gains originated there appear largely attributable to luck and or non-royal endeavors.

ysavir 4y ago

> surely you have to have a level of tolerance for dissenting voices? To the procession or the monarchy? If you say the procession, sure. If you're talking about dissenting voices against the monarchy, I think that can be done without disrupting a memorial service.

matthewh806 4y ago
I would say both; you can oppose the procession itself for all of its pomp and archaic tradition at a time where the country is dealing with a cost of living crisis and also have that also be more broadly a protest against the monarchy in general. A large portion of the life of the royal family is public, even funded by the taxpayer, so to me it makes sense to allow for opposing viewpoints to be heard. Perhaps you can argue that a memorial service isn't the most appropriate time (though, I don't really subscribe to this viewpoint given just how much this memorial is rammed down our throats) to protest, I do think its where its likely to generate the most coverage. There is never going to be a more appropriate time to get people to listen Edit: Just to clarify the point further - Not all of the arrests being discussed were made in Edinburgh (where the procession took place). Its debatable how much impact a person holding a blank sign in Oxford has on the events in Edinburgh (though I would wager its infinitesimally small). Equally, holding a sign with a swearword on it doesn't really "disrupt" in any meaningful sense either. A lot of people defend the police action on the grounds that it "may" have lead to violence via provocation and the person was arrested for "their own safety", but in that case why follow through with the charge? Rather than "de-arresting" (whatever that means) afterwards
- User23 4y ago
  That’s not how money works in the UK. The taxpayer isn’t funding the monarchy or anything else. If anything the Crown is funding the taxpayer via the Bank of England. Edit: evidently people are confused. Here it is from the horse’s mouth: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m...
  - 4y ago

ck425 4y ago

I live in Edinburgh. Can confirm major disruption and likely costs based on the sheer number of police and event staff I've seen just walking through town.

midoridensha 4y ago
>Can confirm major disruption and likely costs based on the sheer number of police and event staff I've seen just walking through town. To be fair, when you consider that the Queen lived for 96 years and there hasn't been an event like this since 1953, the cost spread out over that much time really isn't that much. Long live the King!! (to keep costs down)
- bogomipz 4y ago
  >"To be fair, when you consider that the Queen lived for 96 years and there hasn't been an event like this since 1953" Did you miss the whole Platinum Jubilee celebration two months ago for the Queen? [1] The scope of that was also over the top and costs 10's of millions of pounds. There was also the Saphire Jubilee 5 years ago, the Diamond Jubilee in 2012, the Golden Jubilee in 2002, there's at least a few others as well. What are the Crown Estate assets worth? How many billions? And the public are not only expected to foot the bill for this over the top pageantry but they are supposed to do so with unwavering fealty? And at a time when the average person is worried about skyrocketing inflation and energy costs? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Jubilee_of_Elizabeth_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum_Jubilee_of_Elizabeth_...
  - fennecfoxy 4y ago
    Based on revenue from the crown holdings, since the sovereign grant only represents a small percentage of overall revenues, much of the "public paid" money is paid back by that surplus being made available for public spending. See: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sovereign-grant-act-2011-guidance/sovereign-grant-act-2011-guidance https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sovereign-grant-a... "In exchange for this public support, The Queen surrenders the revenue from The Crown Estate to the government. Over the last ten years, the revenue paid to the Exchequer is £3 billion for public spending." Basically by allowing the monarchy a fund to be used to carry out their public (and private) duties, the surplus of royal holdings revenue goes into public spending. I don't know the exact numbers but the situation is a LOT more complex than "the taxpayer pays for the monarchs, reeee".

encryptluks2 4y ago

klipklop 4y ago

Creepy that this is copypasta'ed in multiple places and is a highly upvoted comment...

dijit 4y ago
I copied and pasted it because it articulated what I wanted to say but was crafted better than I could have said it. Likely I should have attributed it to the source (Reddit) but it was spur of the moment on a thread with 5 comments and 3 votes. Alas.

nathanvanfleet 4y ago

You're noticing that this is copy-pasta from somewhere else. It seems credible that there might be some bad actors like with the Coronavirus or the election. But maybe I struggle to imagine how people could be so incredibly actively loyal to a royal family.

matthewh806 4y ago
I also don't understand the undying loyalty to the royal family either :) And I don't doubt that there are bad actors around, fanning the flames. But in this instance (and without really doing any further digging) I assumed I just came across a person who felt their comment was worthwhile enough to post in multiple places

gerdesj 4y ago

"with all the obedients lapping it up" What exactly is an "obedient"? Are you really deploying a disparaging tag on people who are mourning? That seems a bit crass to me. "we need room for the dissenting voices too" - I saw on C4 (UK TV channel) this evening, some people in Scotland describing their disaffection with the Monarchy. That's fine and quite right. I also find the sheer amount of coverage a bit overwhelming but in the end no one knows what is appropriate - it's not happened before like this - and let's face it, if you were running a TV channel or radio or whatever, you would probably err on the side of caution too unless you were decidedly commercially stupid! No one really knows what is appropriate. A lot of the ceremonies are only now being televised. I have to say that, whilst the sheer bulk of 'er Maj programmes is starting to feel a little excessive, I understand why. Some of them are pretty good too. We will pop out of the other side of this event and the world will continue to turn but we must remember that a King and his bros and moes (sorry!) and their kids and grandkids and great-grandkids have lost a pretty decent human. As have we all. They are an odd lot and they are our odd lot. If it helps, I understand that they are a net gain financially via tourism alone. Not sure how that is costed but I suspect it is probably true. It's fine to imply you prefer a republic instead or perhaps something else but why not be positive about your preferred solution instead of sniping at the current situation. What exactly do you want?

nxmnxm99 4y ago
antirlr 4y ago
matthewh806 4y ago
> What exactly is an "obedient"? Are you really deploying a disparaging tag on people who are mourning? That seems a bit crass to me. Yeah, its a crass term I will agree with you there. The public has come out in droves to support the royal family and respect the ongoing proceedings and a small number have vocally voiced their opposition to the situation and are being condemned for doing so. So, I used this charged term rather cheaply to paint with broad strokes the kind of person I imagine to lap up this unique moment. > I saw on C4 (UK TV channel) this evening, some people in Scotland describing their disaffection with the Monarchy. That's fine and quite right. Here I also agree with you that its nice to hear that C4 was airing voices of people with dissenting perspectives, but I don't necessarily think it should be confined to the TV or the internet as the "appropriate place" to air such views. I think going out and publicly protesting it is much more impactful > What exactly do you want? For people to realise that this isn't just a private occasion for immediate family to pay their respects to the recently departed. That the Royal family, for better or worse, has and continues to play a significant role in the ongoing story of this country and in having such a prominent and public position should be tolerant (even understanding?) of those who oppose, rather than to have it simply be quashed and scrubbed away

denkmoon 4y ago

>There's wall to wall coverage of this event happening worldwide right now, we need room for the dissenting voices too. Thanks to the Internet, there is ample room for all kinds of voices.

matthewh806 4y ago
Yes, just not on the ground where the events are literally unfolding...

stjohnswarts 4y ago

I see it as a funeral service and it is reasonable that people be respectful and protest somewhere else.

nmstoker 4y ago
Or some other time!
HyperSane 4y ago
The UK monarchy do not deserve any respect, they are elitist parasites.

petre 4y ago

If the Scottish independence referendum was called for today, after Brexit, Boris Johnson and the Queen's passing away, it would probably have an entirelly different outcome.

scoot 4y ago
Wait, what? Boris Johnson passed away? I know The Queen's death is overshadowing a lot of other news, but I'm surprised I hadn't heard.
- petre 4y ago
  No, he just partied during Prince Philip's funeral, while everyone else was either in lockdown or mourning. Maybe he's patrying now, just as the late Queen is touring England.

nailer 4y ago

It’s a mourning procession. The purpose is to allow the public to mourn. Like a funeral procession without a body.