4 ms·

The primary positive effect of cannabis in the general population is probably that it tends to interfere with alcohol consumption, due to excessive sedation. Th

by scythe 4y ago

The primary positive effect of cannabis in the general population is probably that it tends to interfere with alcohol consumption, due to excessive sedation. This probably explains the lack of negative population-level effects of cannabis legalization. The most concerning effect of cannabis is its tendency to increase heart rate. Quite a bit of research is available on the effects of cannabis use — the problem is that people don't read it.

ejb999 4y ago
>>the problem is that people don't read it. More likely, they probably can't wade thru the noise to find it - search cannabis and health and be prepared to search thru hundreds, if not ten's of thousands of pages of propaganda claiming that it is nothing but good for almost any health condition you have - real or imagined.
robocat 4y ago
> The most concerning effect of cannabis is its tendency to increase heart rate. Can you please tell me why you think heart rate is more concerning than the psychological effects? Effects which the paper itself mentions and you seem to downplay for some unobvious reason to me. For me, the difficulty is discerning causation from correlation. Anecdotally I know plenty of cannabis users, and many of them have obvious mental issues. I am interested in knowing the root cause of mental issues, because then we are given the opportunity to affect behaviours to improve people’s lives. A correlation is often little help to anyone but other researchers. I didn’t read the paper but the abstract didn’t allude to any insight into causation versus correlation. If an abstract of a paper ignores that issue, then I often don’t bother reading, because there is not enough value from studies measuring correlation (for my personal use for any information).
- sokoloff 4y ago
  > Anecdotally I know plenty of cannabis users, and many of them have obvious mental issues If there’s a causal link, I wonder in which direction is more common? I know kids from my neighborhood who now smoke a lot of weed. I think most of them had issues long before trying weed and weed was more of an escape for them, much like booze is for many.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  > Anecdotally I know plenty of cannabis users, and many of them have obvious mental issues Do they have actual, diagnosed "mental issues", or are you judging that some of their behavior is out of the norm for your experience and thus it must be a mental issue?
  - robocat 4y ago
    Yes, I have acquaintances and friends with diagnosed mental illnesses that smoke weed. Also the same but don’t smoke. Yes, I have acquaintances and friends with no psychological problems that smoke weed. Also the same but don’t smoke. Yes, I have acquaintances and friends with “undiagnosed” psychological problems that smoke weed. Also the same but don’t smoke. No, I am not a professional psychological specialist. Yes, I have some experiences to be able to make intelligent “non-professional” judgements about psychological problems. My definition of a psychological problem is one where the problem is seriously negatively affecting ones life, and ones skills are not successfully mitigating or correcting the problem. Environmental issues have a part to play in that. My friends and acquaintances have a wide range of ages. You seem to be fishing for something - perhaps you could have just made your point instead (with caveats). Disclaimer: I don’t use any form of THC or CBD. No strong reasons against it, just not my thing. I certainly have nothing against those that want or need to take THC or CBD.
    - ok_dad 4y ago
      Sure, I was fishing. I guess I should have just outright said "Your individual experiences with individuals in a group are invalid when discussing things that can be empirically studied, such as the effects of using cannabis on various groups," and went on with my day. By the way, labeling an undesirable group with "mental issues" has been done many times in the past, sometimes even with "good" intentions.
      - NateEag 4y ago
        Individual experiences aren't invalid. A well-designed study may be more revealing, but the individual experiences are legitimate and should not be discarded solely because studies are possible.
- scythe 4y ago
  Psychological effects are, in general, reversible. Also, they tend to be dose-dependent, and rather obvious. It's easy to avoid them by limiting consumption. I stopped smoking weed for other reasons, but I didn't really care if my memory formation was impaired after 9 PM. Effects on the heart, on the other hand, can build up for years without much warning, since most people don't get regular EKG.
nico 4y ago
Recently attended a lecture on Cannabis by a renowned researcher on the subject (the Director of the UCLA Center for Cannabis & Cannabinoids) The most adverse (proven) effects of Cannabis are: * Frequent bronchitis (for people that smoke it) * Risk of vehicle crashes * Low pregnancy weight, preterm birth, NICU * Mental health (associated risk of schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, Cannabis use disorder) * Impaired learning, memory, attention * Drug-drug interaction (mostly for CBD - liver toxicity) That’s the complete slide. Not once in the whole lecture were heart rate issues mentioned or asked about by the attendees. As you can see, there are plenty of adverse effects, but heart-related issues are not one of the main concerns. Do you have any sources for the research you mention and how concerning it is?
- sigstoat 4y ago
  some haphazardly chosen references from a 2013 bibliography on the subject, compiled by someone who probably doesn't want her name showing up in an internet forum. Aryana A, Williams MA. Marijuana as trigger of cardiovascular events: speculation or scientific certainty? Int J Cardiol 2007;118:141-4. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijcard.2006.08.001 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijcard.2006.08.001 Bachs L, Morland H. Acute cardiovascular fatalities following cannabis use. Forensic Sci Int 2001;124:200-3. Cappelli F, Lazzeri C, Gensini GF, Valente S. Cannabis: a trigger for acute myocardial infarction? A case report. J Cardiovasc Med 2008;9:725-728. Jones RT. Cardiovascular system effects of marijuana. J Clin Pharmacol 2002; 42(11 Suppl.):58S-63. Sidney S. Cardiovascular consequences of marijuana use. J Clin Pharmacol 2002;42(11 Suppl.):64S-70S. (Found no association.) Tormey WP. Royal College of Pathologists’ autopsy guidelines on sudden cardiac death: roles for cannabis, cotinine, NSAIDs and psychology. J Clin Pathol 2012;65:187-188. so there's a starting place to look into it. maybe the intervening 9 years have demonstrated that it isn't an issue.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  > Frequent bronchitis (for people that smoke it) Yep breathing combustion products is pretty bad for you. > Risk of vehicle crashes I'm not aware of any proponents of driving while high. > Low pregnancy weight, preterm birth, NICU Again, who's advocating for pregnant women to consume cannabis? > Mental health (associated risk of schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, Cannabis use disorder) I think this is only for those already genetically predisposed to developing schizophrenia. > Impaired learning, memory, attention I'm not sure anyone thinks you should smoke a bunch of drugs before studying for finals. Just for an ounce of perspective here.
skissane 4y ago
Stumbling upon cases like this one really shocked me - “Penile self-amputation due to cannabis-induced psychosis: a case report” https://jmedicalcasereports.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13256-022-03267-0 https://jmedicalcasereports.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.11... (Edit: graphic images warning) If you search PubMed, you will find case reports of other similar incidents. Now, no denying this is an extremely rare adverse effect, but still a quite frightening one. (Also worth stating, many of these reported cases of cannabis-induced psychotic penile self-amputation involve no known history of gender dysphoria.)
- 01100011 4y ago
  Warning, there are some graphic images in that link.
  - skissane 4y ago
    Good point, I edited it to add a note. I should have warned people but I forgot. Also, my mother is a doctor, and when I was a teenager (even tweenager) I used to love to read her medical journals and textbooks–it has made me rather immune to the unsightly images they sometimes contain–although, interestingly, images which I can view nonchalantly in a medical context will still freak me out if divorced from that context.
- oaktrout 4y ago
  I have a feeling that these individuals (I could only find two in my pubmed search) were suffering from schizophrenia, not cannabis-induced psychosis. Maybe you could make the argument that the cannabis caused the schizophrenia, but that's still a different diagnosis. In the case you link the guy had smoked weed for two years prior with no apparent issues. Yes his psychosis resolved after he stopped using cannabis, but he was also treated from that point onward with anti-psychotics (the kind you would treat schizophrenia with). It was probably the anti-psychotics, not the cannabis cessation that made him not psychotic.
  - opportune 4y ago
DontchaKnowit 4y ago
I don't buy that cannabis use interferes with alcohol consumption. Every weed smoker I know is a drunk and when I used to smoke I drank along with it every single time.
- tartoran 4y ago
  I know some who don’t touch a drop of alcohol. Maybe some early 20 yos do but that lifestyle can’t be too productive, pot and alcohol amplify eachother’s effects and get you seriously intoxicated
- Technetium 4y ago
  I'm an example of the direct opposite. I hate drinking.
RHSman2 4y ago
I’d say the increase in a desire to eat the fridge is way more serious.

by scythe 4y ago

ejb999 4y ago

>>the problem is that people don't read it. More likely, they probably can't wade thru the noise to find it - search cannabis and health and be prepared to search thru hundreds, if not ten's of thousands of pages of propaganda claiming that it is nothing but good for almost any health condition you have - real or imagined.

robocat 4y ago

> The most concerning effect of cannabis is its tendency to increase heart rate. Can you please tell me why you think heart rate is more concerning than the psychological effects? Effects which the paper itself mentions and you seem to downplay for some unobvious reason to me. For me, the difficulty is discerning causation from correlation. Anecdotally I know plenty of cannabis users, and many of them have obvious mental issues. I am interested in knowing the root cause of mental issues, because then we are given the opportunity to affect behaviours to improve people’s lives. A correlation is often little help to anyone but other researchers. I didn’t read the paper but the abstract didn’t allude to any insight into causation versus correlation. If an abstract of a paper ignores that issue, then I often don’t bother reading, because there is not enough value from studies measuring correlation (for my personal use for any information).

sokoloff 4y ago
> Anecdotally I know plenty of cannabis users, and many of them have obvious mental issues If there’s a causal link, I wonder in which direction is more common? I know kids from my neighborhood who now smoke a lot of weed. I think most of them had issues long before trying weed and weed was more of an escape for them, much like booze is for many.
ok_dad 4y ago
> Anecdotally I know plenty of cannabis users, and many of them have obvious mental issues Do they have actual, diagnosed "mental issues", or are you judging that some of their behavior is out of the norm for your experience and thus it must be a mental issue?
- robocat 4y ago
  Yes, I have acquaintances and friends with diagnosed mental illnesses that smoke weed. Also the same but don’t smoke. Yes, I have acquaintances and friends with no psychological problems that smoke weed. Also the same but don’t smoke. Yes, I have acquaintances and friends with “undiagnosed” psychological problems that smoke weed. Also the same but don’t smoke. No, I am not a professional psychological specialist. Yes, I have some experiences to be able to make intelligent “non-professional” judgements about psychological problems. My definition of a psychological problem is one where the problem is seriously negatively affecting ones life, and ones skills are not successfully mitigating or correcting the problem. Environmental issues have a part to play in that. My friends and acquaintances have a wide range of ages. You seem to be fishing for something - perhaps you could have just made your point instead (with caveats). Disclaimer: I don’t use any form of THC or CBD. No strong reasons against it, just not my thing. I certainly have nothing against those that want or need to take THC or CBD.
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    Sure, I was fishing. I guess I should have just outright said "Your individual experiences with individuals in a group are invalid when discussing things that can be empirically studied, such as the effects of using cannabis on various groups," and went on with my day. By the way, labeling an undesirable group with "mental issues" has been done many times in the past, sometimes even with "good" intentions.
    - NateEag 4y ago
      Individual experiences aren't invalid. A well-designed study may be more revealing, but the individual experiences are legitimate and should not be discarded solely because studies are possible.
scythe 4y ago
Psychological effects are, in general, reversible. Also, they tend to be dose-dependent, and rather obvious. It's easy to avoid them by limiting consumption. I stopped smoking weed for other reasons, but I didn't really care if my memory formation was impaired after 9 PM. Effects on the heart, on the other hand, can build up for years without much warning, since most people don't get regular EKG.

nico 4y ago

Recently attended a lecture on Cannabis by a renowned researcher on the subject (the Director of the UCLA Center for Cannabis & Cannabinoids) The most adverse (proven) effects of Cannabis are: * Frequent bronchitis (for people that smoke it) * Risk of vehicle crashes * Low pregnancy weight, preterm birth, NICU * Mental health (associated risk of schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, Cannabis use disorder) * Impaired learning, memory, attention * Drug-drug interaction (mostly for CBD - liver toxicity) That’s the complete slide. Not once in the whole lecture were heart rate issues mentioned or asked about by the attendees. As you can see, there are plenty of adverse effects, but heart-related issues are not one of the main concerns. Do you have any sources for the research you mention and how concerning it is?

sigstoat 4y ago
some haphazardly chosen references from a 2013 bibliography on the subject, compiled by someone who probably doesn't want her name showing up in an internet forum. Aryana A, Williams MA. Marijuana as trigger of cardiovascular events: speculation or scientific certainty? Int J Cardiol 2007;118:141-4. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijcard.2006.08.001 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijcard.2006.08.001 Bachs L, Morland H. Acute cardiovascular fatalities following cannabis use. Forensic Sci Int 2001;124:200-3. Cappelli F, Lazzeri C, Gensini GF, Valente S. Cannabis: a trigger for acute myocardial infarction? A case report. J Cardiovasc Med 2008;9:725-728. Jones RT. Cardiovascular system effects of marijuana. J Clin Pharmacol 2002; 42(11 Suppl.):58S-63. Sidney S. Cardiovascular consequences of marijuana use. J Clin Pharmacol 2002;42(11 Suppl.):64S-70S. (Found no association.) Tormey WP. Royal College of Pathologists’ autopsy guidelines on sudden cardiac death: roles for cannabis, cotinine, NSAIDs and psychology. J Clin Pathol 2012;65:187-188. so there's a starting place to look into it. maybe the intervening 9 years have demonstrated that it isn't an issue.
ch4s3 4y ago
> Frequent bronchitis (for people that smoke it) Yep breathing combustion products is pretty bad for you. > Risk of vehicle crashes I'm not aware of any proponents of driving while high. > Low pregnancy weight, preterm birth, NICU Again, who's advocating for pregnant women to consume cannabis? > Mental health (associated risk of schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, Cannabis use disorder) I think this is only for those already genetically predisposed to developing schizophrenia. > Impaired learning, memory, attention I'm not sure anyone thinks you should smoke a bunch of drugs before studying for finals. Just for an ounce of perspective here.

skissane 4y ago

Stumbling upon cases like this one really shocked me - “Penile self-amputation due to cannabis-induced psychosis: a case report” https://jmedicalcasereports.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13256-022-03267-0 https://jmedicalcasereports.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.11... (Edit: graphic images warning) If you search PubMed, you will find case reports of other similar incidents. Now, no denying this is an extremely rare adverse effect, but still a quite frightening one. (Also worth stating, many of these reported cases of cannabis-induced psychotic penile self-amputation involve no known history of gender dysphoria.)

01100011 4y ago
Warning, there are some graphic images in that link.
- skissane 4y ago
  Good point, I edited it to add a note. I should have warned people but I forgot. Also, my mother is a doctor, and when I was a teenager (even tweenager) I used to love to read her medical journals and textbooks–it has made me rather immune to the unsightly images they sometimes contain–although, interestingly, images which I can view nonchalantly in a medical context will still freak me out if divorced from that context.
oaktrout 4y ago
I have a feeling that these individuals (I could only find two in my pubmed search) were suffering from schizophrenia, not cannabis-induced psychosis. Maybe you could make the argument that the cannabis caused the schizophrenia, but that's still a different diagnosis. In the case you link the guy had smoked weed for two years prior with no apparent issues. Yes his psychosis resolved after he stopped using cannabis, but he was also treated from that point onward with anti-psychotics (the kind you would treat schizophrenia with). It was probably the anti-psychotics, not the cannabis cessation that made him not psychotic.
- opportune 4y ago

DontchaKnowit 4y ago

I don't buy that cannabis use interferes with alcohol consumption. Every weed smoker I know is a drunk and when I used to smoke I drank along with it every single time.

tartoran 4y ago
I know some who don’t touch a drop of alcohol. Maybe some early 20 yos do but that lifestyle can’t be too productive, pot and alcohol amplify eachother’s effects and get you seriously intoxicated
Technetium 4y ago
I'm an example of the direct opposite. I hate drinking.

RHSman2 4y ago

I’d say the increase in a desire to eat the fridge is way more serious.