4 ms·

I've had the pleasure of working with 60+ year old programmers. It is opposite of what you expect from the stereotypical mainstream opinions. I constantly go ba

I've had the pleasure of working with 60+ year old programmers. It is opposite of what you expect from the stereotypical mainstream opinions. I constantly go back to them, call them for lunch, go for walks, just so I can ask them questions about old days and how things used to work. There is so much to learn from hindsight, this knowledge is vanishing. Take advantage of learning from older people even though it doesn't fit the current trends. There is wisdom and experience under those opinions, which can sometimes be a little harsh. Similarly, read old computer books. Byte magazine has a full archive online. Read user manuals of IBM 360 system. For entrepreneurs, read old corporate press releases. Pull up a copy of Westinghouse's 1978 annual report as you fall to sleep. Fantastic stuff, I am enamored by history.

avg_dev 4y ago
I find it interesting how stuff that was relevant for PCs in the 80s became relevant for early smartphones. I believe computing history often is cyclic in nature, so there is value in the old ways.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  I always thought of any human progress like gradient descent algo. Hindsight is clear, and if current tools/services/methods/processes don't work, look at how it used to be done. Was it better objectively? May be we took a step in the wrong direction, go back and learn; try to take in a different direction, may be there is a higher ground ahead. It is also important to allow (and be tolerant) to experimentation in different directions because without it; we risk getting stuck in a local optima forever. Opposite of that is Chesterton's fence, there is a reason why we are on this hill, if you go back, it's a steep cliff.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  "The Wheel Of Reincarnation". Seriously, it's called that. Ideas from mainframes show up as "new, innovative ideas" on minicomputers, and then on micros/PS, and now on phones.
  - jecel 4y ago
    I am familiar with that as "The Law of Recapitulation" based on a discarded idea from Biology. I can't find any references now, but the idea was that the evolution of mainframe computers (memory sizes, features such as caches, and so on) was repeated years later by minicomputers and even later by microcomputers. Knowing this I was able to design very advanced micros in the early 1980s since I knew what the future would be like. "The Wheel Of Reincarnation" described by Ivan Sutherland is closely related, but is based on the idea that computing history is more like a spiral than a straight line, so the future is more similar to the past than to the present. http://www.cap-lore.com/Hardware/Wheel.html http://www.cap-lore.com/Hardware/Wheel.html
jes 4y ago
I'm a 62, almost 63, year old programmer. Thanks for being open-minded. It's been a great career for me. My first computer was a PDP-8/E and an ASR-33 teletype. I've had the good fortune to see a lot of computer history over the years. I still do embedded systems programming for work and hope to continue to do so for another five years. I've used UNIX most of my career.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Thinking back, maybe the first useful program I ever wrote was on a printing calculator that could remember a sequence of operations -- maybe up to 64? -- but had no branch instructions. You would push "go" each time it stopped, kachunk kachunk kachunk..., until it finished. The program figured loan interest payments. (Printing calculators used to be loud.)
- randmeerkat 4y ago
  > I still do embedded systems programming for work… What are your favorite resources for learning / reference in regards to embedded systems?
  - mianos 4y ago
    Buy a few ESP32 boards and make an LED blink. Once you get past that, the sky is the limit.
  - jes 4y ago
    I don't know if I have favorite resources to recommend. I know there are a ton of YouTube videos and podcasts that offer a lot of good ideas. I like reading the Linux Kernel Mailing List and tech notes. Simply buying any one of the cheap boards you can find online (if they have supply) and trying to get something like a JTAG debugger working will be beneficial to you. Just try to get something simple going on bare metal. It's been a while since I worked with PIC microcontrollers, yet as I remember there is a lot you can do with some of the cheap PIC devices, a breadboard, and an investment of $100 - $200 in electronic parts. It was important for me to build up a modest lab of electronic test equipment, power supplies, breadboards, etc. Wishing you success, whatever route you go.
pcthrowaway 4y ago
It's kind of crazy to think that computing is still young enough that we could have worked with the developers of operating systems, the world wide web, foundational protocols, and file formats. I had a CS professor 13 years ago who worked on computer chips back when personal computers were just starting to take off. In 30-40 years, I wonder how many things from that old guard will still be around.

avg_dev 4y ago

I find it interesting how stuff that was relevant for PCs in the 80s became relevant for early smartphones. I believe computing history often is cyclic in nature, so there is value in the old ways.

systemvoltage 4y ago
I always thought of any human progress like gradient descent algo. Hindsight is clear, and if current tools/services/methods/processes don't work, look at how it used to be done. Was it better objectively? May be we took a step in the wrong direction, go back and learn; try to take in a different direction, may be there is a higher ground ahead. It is also important to allow (and be tolerant) to experimentation in different directions because without it; we risk getting stuck in a local optima forever. Opposite of that is Chesterton's fence, there is a reason why we are on this hill, if you go back, it's a steep cliff.
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
"The Wheel Of Reincarnation". Seriously, it's called that. Ideas from mainframes show up as "new, innovative ideas" on minicomputers, and then on micros/PS, and now on phones.
- jecel 4y ago
  I am familiar with that as "The Law of Recapitulation" based on a discarded idea from Biology. I can't find any references now, but the idea was that the evolution of mainframe computers (memory sizes, features such as caches, and so on) was repeated years later by minicomputers and even later by microcomputers. Knowing this I was able to design very advanced micros in the early 1980s since I knew what the future would be like. "The Wheel Of Reincarnation" described by Ivan Sutherland is closely related, but is based on the idea that computing history is more like a spiral than a straight line, so the future is more similar to the past than to the present. http://www.cap-lore.com/Hardware/Wheel.html http://www.cap-lore.com/Hardware/Wheel.html

jes 4y ago

I'm a 62, almost 63, year old programmer. Thanks for being open-minded. It's been a great career for me. My first computer was a PDP-8/E and an ASR-33 teletype. I've had the good fortune to see a lot of computer history over the years. I still do embedded systems programming for work and hope to continue to do so for another five years. I've used UNIX most of my career.

ncmncm 4y ago
Thinking back, maybe the first useful program I ever wrote was on a printing calculator that could remember a sequence of operations -- maybe up to 64? -- but had no branch instructions. You would push "go" each time it stopped, kachunk kachunk kachunk..., until it finished. The program figured loan interest payments. (Printing calculators used to be loud.)
randmeerkat 4y ago
> I still do embedded systems programming for work… What are your favorite resources for learning / reference in regards to embedded systems?
- mianos 4y ago
  Buy a few ESP32 boards and make an LED blink. Once you get past that, the sky is the limit.
- jes 4y ago
  I don't know if I have favorite resources to recommend. I know there are a ton of YouTube videos and podcasts that offer a lot of good ideas. I like reading the Linux Kernel Mailing List and tech notes. Simply buying any one of the cheap boards you can find online (if they have supply) and trying to get something like a JTAG debugger working will be beneficial to you. Just try to get something simple going on bare metal. It's been a while since I worked with PIC microcontrollers, yet as I remember there is a lot you can do with some of the cheap PIC devices, a breadboard, and an investment of $100 - $200 in electronic parts. It was important for me to build up a modest lab of electronic test equipment, power supplies, breadboards, etc. Wishing you success, whatever route you go.

pcthrowaway 4y ago

It's kind of crazy to think that computing is still young enough that we could have worked with the developers of operating systems, the world wide web, foundational protocols, and file formats. I had a CS professor 13 years ago who worked on computer chips back when personal computers were just starting to take off. In 30-40 years, I wonder how many things from that old guard will still be around.