4 ms·

8bitworkshop

215 points by tambourine_man 4y ago

FullyFunctional 4y ago
That's really neat and it's not just 8-bit. There's a section for Verilog as well. The instant and continous feedback makes me bang out some small circuits just for fun.
- drivers99 4y ago
  Wow. "We'll run your design in real time in the browser, displaying the output on a simulated CRT." They have a book to use it with and say it would work on hardware (the linked hardware is out of stock of course). I just ran across this on HN yesterday: "Exploring FPGA Graphics" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32807903 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32807903 I'm curious to see how they compare.
- prabhu-yu 4y ago
- cesaref 4y ago
  Yes, I was just looking at the verilog part and the speed of development and feedback is certainly orders of magnitude quicker than other dev environments, and i've got some ideas of things to explore with it.
tenebrisalietum 4y ago
Great for playing around with and testing Atari 2600 code. You can paste some of the game disassemblies floating around into the IDE and they'll work. Then you can hack on them in near-realtime.
kapilkchaurasia 4y ago
keyle 4y ago
Hah. If you're keen bean on this sort of thing, check out the pico-8 [1] and make games in it! I'm not affiliated in any way, but I highly recommend the workflow and the experience. [1] https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php
- sitzkrieg 4y ago
  highly recommend the free tic-80 for a comparable (and slightly more capable) platform tooo
  - deaddabe 4y ago
    I can also recommand WASM-4 (https://wasm4.org/ https://wasm4.org/), that has even more constraints (screen resolution, color count, …) and that you can program with your language of choice, as long as it can compile to WASM (eg. C, C++, Rust, probably Nim…).
  - Narishma 4y ago
    What I don't like about these fantasy consoles compared to real ones is that they don't put any limits on computational power.
codeflo 4y ago
Honest question: Why is this kind of retro programming at all attractive to younger people who didn’t grow up with that hardware? For people like me, it’s clearly childhood nostalgia. But to be honest, 8-bit programming was so painful that people couldn’t wait to get rid of those limitations back then. (I tend to think the 16-bit era was the sweet spot in terms of capabilities vs. complexity.)
- bodge5000 4y ago
  Creative limitations would be a big reason. I'm sure someone else can explain it better, but being forced into a far smaller scope than you'd usually work in makes you have to consider the impact of every small thing. Its not just a programming thing, people do the same with music, art, any medium. Its also quite nice as it acts as a levelling of the playing field. The limitations of modern tech are far outside the reach of most solo-devs, but put 100 devs on it, and you could reach it (and therefore create something more technically impressive). With those limitations on, a solo dev can far more conceivably create something technically impressive. Unless it has real world consequences (eg you can export to a gameboy ROM or something), I don't really care if its based on an actual retro system or a fantasy one, they achieve those same results.
  - deaddabe 4y ago
    Having to program down to the bit (not byte) sparks a little something for me. I feel proudness in the craft, even if this is a bit (pun!) far frow nowadays’s constraints. I just learned the hex decades (1, 16, 256, 4k, 64k, 1M, 16M, 256M, 4G…) and now if I need to generate a 1M empty file I know that `head /dev/zero -c $((0x100000)) > 1M.bin` would do without having to multiply 1024 three times. This kind of little things. :) Nevertheless, it can still be useful if you write Linux device drivers or some other low-level tasks. Microcontroller programming, too, but without having to buy them in the first place (MCU shortage…).
- michaelgrafl 4y ago
  I find programming where you get to know exactly what each instruction does is a very satisfying feeling. Makes me feel empowered, self-sufficient, excited, etc. A bit like bootstrapping a village out of primitive resources in Minecraft.
daitangio 4y ago
I discovered it one year ago, and I find it very nice. I used it to study some C/64 and NES algorithms, and to write this guide https://8bit.gioorgi.com/docs/8bit/programming/nes https://8bit.gioorgi.com/docs/8bit/programming/nes
Marazan 4y ago
"using our in-browser C compiler targeting the Z80 CPU" Isn't the Z80 a notoriously bad target for C? With its collection of very non-orthogonal registers. I know in the retro ZX Spectrun scene the use of C is as simplistic glue to piece together hand optimised assembler.
- TeaDude 4y ago
  I always thought that the 6502 was the hard one with all it's zero page shenanigans.
Inhibit 4y ago
My personal favorite 8-bit gaming machine is the Arduboy. They combine an Atmega 32u4 with a minimum of hardware to create a surprisingly good console. You can modify and extend it to your hearts content and there's a usable software stack and helpful community grown up around it. https://www.arduboy.com/ https://www.arduboy.com/
andrewstuart 4y ago
I love the user interface of this! Looks great.

That's really neat and it's not just 8-bit. There's a section for Verilog as well. The instant and continous feedback makes me bang out some small circuits just for fun.

drivers99 4y ago
Wow. "We'll run your design in real time in the browser, displaying the output on a simulated CRT." They have a book to use it with and say it would work on hardware (the linked hardware is out of stock of course). I just ran across this on HN yesterday: "Exploring FPGA Graphics" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32807903 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32807903 I'm curious to see how they compare.
prabhu-yu 4y ago
cesaref 4y ago
Yes, I was just looking at the verilog part and the speed of development and feedback is certainly orders of magnitude quicker than other dev environments, and i've got some ideas of things to explore with it.

tenebrisalietum 4y ago

Great for playing around with and testing Atari 2600 code. You can paste some of the game disassemblies floating around into the IDE and they'll work. Then you can hack on them in near-realtime.

kapilkchaurasia 4y ago

keyle 4y ago

Hah. If you're keen bean on this sort of thing, check out the pico-8 [1] and make games in it! I'm not affiliated in any way, but I highly recommend the workflow and the experience. [1] https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php

sitzkrieg 4y ago
highly recommend the free tic-80 for a comparable (and slightly more capable) platform tooo
- deaddabe 4y ago
  I can also recommand WASM-4 (https://wasm4.org/ https://wasm4.org/), that has even more constraints (screen resolution, color count, …) and that you can program with your language of choice, as long as it can compile to WASM (eg. C, C++, Rust, probably Nim…).
- Narishma 4y ago
  What I don't like about these fantasy consoles compared to real ones is that they don't put any limits on computational power.

codeflo 4y ago

Honest question: Why is this kind of retro programming at all attractive to younger people who didn’t grow up with that hardware? For people like me, it’s clearly childhood nostalgia. But to be honest, 8-bit programming was so painful that people couldn’t wait to get rid of those limitations back then. (I tend to think the 16-bit era was the sweet spot in terms of capabilities vs. complexity.)

bodge5000 4y ago
Creative limitations would be a big reason. I'm sure someone else can explain it better, but being forced into a far smaller scope than you'd usually work in makes you have to consider the impact of every small thing. Its not just a programming thing, people do the same with music, art, any medium. Its also quite nice as it acts as a levelling of the playing field. The limitations of modern tech are far outside the reach of most solo-devs, but put 100 devs on it, and you could reach it (and therefore create something more technically impressive). With those limitations on, a solo dev can far more conceivably create something technically impressive. Unless it has real world consequences (eg you can export to a gameboy ROM or something), I don't really care if its based on an actual retro system or a fantasy one, they achieve those same results.
- deaddabe 4y ago
  Having to program down to the bit (not byte) sparks a little something for me. I feel proudness in the craft, even if this is a bit (pun!) far frow nowadays’s constraints. I just learned the hex decades (1, 16, 256, 4k, 64k, 1M, 16M, 256M, 4G…) and now if I need to generate a 1M empty file I know that `head /dev/zero -c $((0x100000)) > 1M.bin` would do without having to multiply 1024 three times. This kind of little things. :) Nevertheless, it can still be useful if you write Linux device drivers or some other low-level tasks. Microcontroller programming, too, but without having to buy them in the first place (MCU shortage…).
michaelgrafl 4y ago
I find programming where you get to know exactly what each instruction does is a very satisfying feeling. Makes me feel empowered, self-sufficient, excited, etc. A bit like bootstrapping a village out of primitive resources in Minecraft.

daitangio 4y ago

I discovered it one year ago, and I find it very nice. I used it to study some C/64 and NES algorithms, and to write this guide https://8bit.gioorgi.com/docs/8bit/programming/nes https://8bit.gioorgi.com/docs/8bit/programming/nes

Marazan 4y ago

"using our in-browser C compiler targeting the Z80 CPU" Isn't the Z80 a notoriously bad target for C? With its collection of very non-orthogonal registers. I know in the retro ZX Spectrun scene the use of C is as simplistic glue to piece together hand optimised assembler.

TeaDude 4y ago
I always thought that the 6502 was the hard one with all it's zero page shenanigans.

Inhibit 4y ago

My personal favorite 8-bit gaming machine is the Arduboy. They combine an Atmega 32u4 with a minimum of hardware to create a surprisingly good console. You can modify and extend it to your hearts content and there's a usable software stack and helpful community grown up around it. https://www.arduboy.com/ https://www.arduboy.com/

andrewstuart 4y ago

I love the user interface of this! Looks great.