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I hate that I even feel like this, but I'm always in awe when old people (in this case 80+ years old) talk in depth about software with such fluency. I know it

by enw 4y ago

I hate that I even feel like this, but I'm always in awe when old people (in this case 80+ years old) talk in depth about software with such fluency. I know it's self-evident, but I'm so used to being around younger folks in tech that it's really cool to see gray hairs.

PostOnce 4y ago
Haha, this reminds me, I used to work at a startup social network and I kept hearing from various people there that "people over 30 don't understand tech"; buddy, who do you think built the computer you're using and all of your software tools? :p
- brailsafe 4y ago
  I mean, I'm 30, and as a software dev, i sure as hell don't understand tech lol
- selfhoster11 4y ago
  If anything, it’s people below 20 that don’t understand tech. Smart devices have made interaction with tech literally too easy, to the extent that uni curricula have to teach people how to use files because they didn’t learn how on their own. This is of course a generalisation. There are plenty of 20yo and younger who are curious about tech and do understand the basics. But earlier iterations of tech depended on you knowing these concepts. You had to know what a file was to make use of a computer.
avg_dev 4y ago
As someone approaching middle age, who has been coding professionally for a long time, I can tell you without a shred of doubt that I am a far stronger software developer than I was five years ago. I was far stronger then than I was ten years ago. The list could go on, but then you’d realize I’m really old :)
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >As someone approaching middle age, who has been coding professionally for a long time "Hi avg_dev, I am impressed by your experience and think you would be a perfect fit for our new opening in our exciting company. Please send me your resume, and here's the link to your unpaid take home assignment that should be easily done in a weekend or so. If your submission is satisfactory, we'll invite you to an on-site interview then discuss your compensation with the management. Looking forward to your submission" /s
  - Technetium 4y ago
    I can't tell if this is intended to come off so inflammatory, please do better.
systemvoltage 4y ago
I've had the pleasure of working with 60+ year old programmers. It is opposite of what you expect from the stereotypical mainstream opinions. I constantly go back to them, call them for lunch, go for walks, just so I can ask them questions about old days and how things used to work. There is so much to learn from hindsight, this knowledge is vanishing. Take advantage of learning from older people even though it doesn't fit the current trends. There is wisdom and experience under those opinions, which can sometimes be a little harsh. Similarly, read old computer books. Byte magazine has a full archive online. Read user manuals of IBM 360 system. For entrepreneurs, read old corporate press releases. Pull up a copy of Westinghouse's 1978 annual report as you fall to sleep. Fantastic stuff, I am enamored by history.
- avg_dev 4y ago
  I find it interesting how stuff that was relevant for PCs in the 80s became relevant for early smartphones. I believe computing history often is cyclic in nature, so there is value in the old ways.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    I always thought of any human progress like gradient descent algo. Hindsight is clear, and if current tools/services/methods/processes don't work, look at how it used to be done. Was it better objectively? May be we took a step in the wrong direction, go back and learn; try to take in a different direction, may be there is a higher ground ahead. It is also important to allow (and be tolerant) to experimentation in different directions because without it; we risk getting stuck in a local optima forever. Opposite of that is Chesterton's fence, there is a reason why we are on this hill, if you go back, it's a steep cliff.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    "The Wheel Of Reincarnation". Seriously, it's called that. Ideas from mainframes show up as "new, innovative ideas" on minicomputers, and then on micros/PS, and now on phones.
    - 4y ago
lallysingh 4y ago
I see it similarly to talking to a martial arts master. Someone who's trained themselves for 2x longer than I've been alive to perfect their skill.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  "Be wary of old men in professions where men die young" - old Norse proverb However, I've seen this rarely applies in tech. It works in fields where old knowledge and experience is highly valued and not go obsolete very fast like medicine, law, accounting, military, construction, sports or martial arts, but modern web and app driven tech moved fast and made a lot of old knowledge experience obsolete. If a company is hiring a JS dev, your cobol and fortran experience from 30 years ago is pretty useless to them and won't give you extra money for it than a new grad with only JS experience under his belt. But as a dentist, the experience you gained 30 years ago is still a benefit to you now. I've had to struggle a lot to get hired as a backend dev with 10 years of experience in coding C for real time systems because no employer valued my previous knowledge for their business.

by enw 4y ago

PostOnce 4y ago

Haha, this reminds me, I used to work at a startup social network and I kept hearing from various people there that "people over 30 don't understand tech"; buddy, who do you think built the computer you're using and all of your software tools? :p

brailsafe 4y ago
I mean, I'm 30, and as a software dev, i sure as hell don't understand tech lol
selfhoster11 4y ago
If anything, it’s people below 20 that don’t understand tech. Smart devices have made interaction with tech literally too easy, to the extent that uni curricula have to teach people how to use files because they didn’t learn how on their own. This is of course a generalisation. There are plenty of 20yo and younger who are curious about tech and do understand the basics. But earlier iterations of tech depended on you knowing these concepts. You had to know what a file was to make use of a computer.

avg_dev 4y ago

As someone approaching middle age, who has been coding professionally for a long time, I can tell you without a shred of doubt that I am a far stronger software developer than I was five years ago. I was far stronger then than I was ten years ago. The list could go on, but then you’d realize I’m really old :)

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>As someone approaching middle age, who has been coding professionally for a long time "Hi avg_dev, I am impressed by your experience and think you would be a perfect fit for our new opening in our exciting company. Please send me your resume, and here's the link to your unpaid take home assignment that should be easily done in a weekend or so. If your submission is satisfactory, we'll invite you to an on-site interview then discuss your compensation with the management. Looking forward to your submission" /s
- Technetium 4y ago
  I can't tell if this is intended to come off so inflammatory, please do better.

systemvoltage 4y ago

I've had the pleasure of working with 60+ year old programmers. It is opposite of what you expect from the stereotypical mainstream opinions. I constantly go back to them, call them for lunch, go for walks, just so I can ask them questions about old days and how things used to work. There is so much to learn from hindsight, this knowledge is vanishing. Take advantage of learning from older people even though it doesn't fit the current trends. There is wisdom and experience under those opinions, which can sometimes be a little harsh. Similarly, read old computer books. Byte magazine has a full archive online. Read user manuals of IBM 360 system. For entrepreneurs, read old corporate press releases. Pull up a copy of Westinghouse's 1978 annual report as you fall to sleep. Fantastic stuff, I am enamored by history.

avg_dev 4y ago
I find it interesting how stuff that was relevant for PCs in the 80s became relevant for early smartphones. I believe computing history often is cyclic in nature, so there is value in the old ways.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  I always thought of any human progress like gradient descent algo. Hindsight is clear, and if current tools/services/methods/processes don't work, look at how it used to be done. Was it better objectively? May be we took a step in the wrong direction, go back and learn; try to take in a different direction, may be there is a higher ground ahead. It is also important to allow (and be tolerant) to experimentation in different directions because without it; we risk getting stuck in a local optima forever. Opposite of that is Chesterton's fence, there is a reason why we are on this hill, if you go back, it's a steep cliff.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  "The Wheel Of Reincarnation". Seriously, it's called that. Ideas from mainframes show up as "new, innovative ideas" on minicomputers, and then on micros/PS, and now on phones.
  - 4y ago

lallysingh 4y ago

I see it similarly to talking to a martial arts master. Someone who's trained themselves for 2x longer than I've been alive to perfect their skill.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
"Be wary of old men in professions where men die young" - old Norse proverb However, I've seen this rarely applies in tech. It works in fields where old knowledge and experience is highly valued and not go obsolete very fast like medicine, law, accounting, military, construction, sports or martial arts, but modern web and app driven tech moved fast and made a lot of old knowledge experience obsolete. If a company is hiring a JS dev, your cobol and fortran experience from 30 years ago is pretty useless to them and won't give you extra money for it than a new grad with only JS experience under his belt. But as a dentist, the experience you gained 30 years ago is still a benefit to you now. I've had to struggle a lot to get hired as a backend dev with 10 years of experience in coding C for real time systems because no employer valued my previous knowledge for their business.