4 ms·

It's funny how the mind is mathematical to mathematicians, a compartmentalized system to psychologists, an engineering system to neuroscientists, a small repres

It's funny how the mind is mathematical to mathematicians, a compartmentalized system to psychologists, an engineering system to neuroscientists, a small representation of God to religious people, an emotional system to artists, etc... like the parable of the blind men and the elephant. I sometimes wonder if our minds can create the reality we wish to some extent so we all live in our own universes.

ianai 4y ago
I studied math in undergrad with a philosophy minor. To me, it was pretty clear that math absolutely was 'alien'/foreign to the human brain. It's clearly very useful, but human brains are not inherently capable of grasping it. (But they can learn remarkably well...) Notably, Godel died by malnutrition after convincing himself he was being poisoned or misled about reality. Psychologists seem like semi-empirical philosophers. Philosophers seemed, usually, to be conveying their world views in their writings. They'd claim universality, sometimes. Other times, the arguments seemed almost pathologically designed to shirk criticism in the most trivial, petty ways (thinking of you, solipsism) - and we should really all just move on from them to more meaningful discourse. [Engineers should be trusted with absolutely nothing but the exact problem space their disciplines have proven reliable. They're like children, at worst.] Nonetheless, I suspect Godel's incompleteness theorem may be a sort of logical breakthrough the ramifications from which are still not properly explored.
- bmitc 4y ago
  > To me, it was pretty clear that math absolutely was 'alien'/foreign to the human brain. It's clearly very useful, but human brains are not inherently capable of grasping it. That pretty strongly disagrees with a few experts on the matter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Mathematics_Comes_From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Mathematics_Comes_From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics,_Form_and_Function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics,_Form_and_Function Also, I'm not sire how Godel's death is relevant.
  - anthk 4y ago
    From your link: "It's difficult for me to conceive of a metaphor for a real number raised to a complex power, but if there is one, I'd sure like to see it." — Joseph Auslander" https://www.math.toronto.edu/mathnet/questionCorner/complexexp.html https://www.math.toronto.edu/mathnet/questionCorner/complexe...
  - simonh 4y ago
    We do grasp mathematics, some of us anyway, so clearly that’s false but I doubt it was meant literally. The linked articles are interesting, thanks, they seem to show the cognitive mechanisms we use to engage in mathematical thinking. I’d rather say that understanding or performing mathematics is, how to say this, cognitively expensive for human minds. It takes an awful lot of effort, because while we have cognitive mechanisms suitable to the task, there not very efficient for that purpose. > Also, I'm not sure how Godel's death is relevant. Godel did a lot of seminal work on how to analyse statements and beliefs and how to reason about their truth or falsehood, yet died as a direct result of holding a (presumably) false belief.
    - bmitc 4y ago
      The books those articles summarize are very good, although I haven’t completed either. I’m familiar with Godel, but he was mentally ill. He had several phobias and mental disorders, and at the end, his wife became severely ill and was no longer able to care for and feed him, so he starved himself to death. Mental illness and the fragility of the human mind and psyche have little to do with mathematics being first and foremost a human creation and endeavor.
simonh 4y ago
“Why was man created alone? Is it not true that the creator could have created the whole of humanity? But man was created alone to teach you that whoever kills one life kills the world entire, and whoever saves one life saves the world entire.” —paraphrased from the Talmud
- boxmonster 4y ago
  Thanks for this

ianai 4y ago

I studied math in undergrad with a philosophy minor. To me, it was pretty clear that math absolutely was 'alien'/foreign to the human brain. It's clearly very useful, but human brains are not inherently capable of grasping it. (But they can learn remarkably well...) Notably, Godel died by malnutrition after convincing himself he was being poisoned or misled about reality. Psychologists seem like semi-empirical philosophers. Philosophers seemed, usually, to be conveying their world views in their writings. They'd claim universality, sometimes. Other times, the arguments seemed almost pathologically designed to shirk criticism in the most trivial, petty ways (thinking of you, solipsism) - and we should really all just move on from them to more meaningful discourse. [Engineers should be trusted with absolutely nothing but the exact problem space their disciplines have proven reliable. They're like children, at worst.] Nonetheless, I suspect Godel's incompleteness theorem may be a sort of logical breakthrough the ramifications from which are still not properly explored.

bmitc 4y ago
> To me, it was pretty clear that math absolutely was 'alien'/foreign to the human brain. It's clearly very useful, but human brains are not inherently capable of grasping it. That pretty strongly disagrees with a few experts on the matter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Mathematics_Comes_From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Mathematics_Comes_From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics,_Form_and_Function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics,_Form_and_Function Also, I'm not sire how Godel's death is relevant.
- anthk 4y ago
  From your link: "It's difficult for me to conceive of a metaphor for a real number raised to a complex power, but if there is one, I'd sure like to see it." — Joseph Auslander" https://www.math.toronto.edu/mathnet/questionCorner/complexexp.html https://www.math.toronto.edu/mathnet/questionCorner/complexe...
- simonh 4y ago
  We do grasp mathematics, some of us anyway, so clearly that’s false but I doubt it was meant literally. The linked articles are interesting, thanks, they seem to show the cognitive mechanisms we use to engage in mathematical thinking. I’d rather say that understanding or performing mathematics is, how to say this, cognitively expensive for human minds. It takes an awful lot of effort, because while we have cognitive mechanisms suitable to the task, there not very efficient for that purpose. > Also, I'm not sure how Godel's death is relevant. Godel did a lot of seminal work on how to analyse statements and beliefs and how to reason about their truth or falsehood, yet died as a direct result of holding a (presumably) false belief.
  - bmitc 4y ago
    The books those articles summarize are very good, although I haven’t completed either. I’m familiar with Godel, but he was mentally ill. He had several phobias and mental disorders, and at the end, his wife became severely ill and was no longer able to care for and feed him, so he starved himself to death. Mental illness and the fragility of the human mind and psyche have little to do with mathematics being first and foremost a human creation and endeavor.

simonh 4y ago

“Why was man created alone? Is it not true that the creator could have created the whole of humanity? But man was created alone to teach you that whoever kills one life kills the world entire, and whoever saves one life saves the world entire.” —paraphrased from the Talmud

boxmonster 4y ago
Thanks for this