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> But that will take decades. What do we do until then? We wait. I don't understand why people want these issues to be resolved here and now. Society and cul

by gnull 4y ago

> But that will take decades. What do we do until then? We wait. I don't understand why people want these issues to be resolved here and now. Society and culture take decades to change, that's natural, and shortcuts—however tempting they might be—often come at a cost of something else. The conditions of these oppressed groups are not terribly bad, compared to what was going on with people in general throughout history. An average man who lived in Europe 100 years ago would gladly change places with an average black woman living in Europe nowadays. And even lots of white people from poorer countries nowadays have a lower standard of living than black people in developed countries. I speak from my own experience, as a person who grew up in a countryside where people don't have running water in their homes and toilet is just a hole in the ground; then I come to Northern Europe for work and hear how hard it is to be a black person here and that I'm apparently privileged because I'm white. My point is, current conditions of people in developed countries are not so bad that it requires urgent measures to improve. If solving it takes 2-4 generations of people living in these conditions, it's not that much of a tragedy, and I don't think we must urgently start dumping resources to speed it up.

Rapzid 4y ago
Agree; it IS decades later right now. Thank you Sesame Street, thank you counter-culture alum that went on to dominate our media and children's programming (pun intended). The diversity initiatives are misguided attempts by those raised to care about it to fast-track the process. Now they are adults and impatient to see more change that really only occurs generationally. Not everyone came along for the ride though and they absolutely know what Sesame Street and friends did. Hence the attacks on PBS, schools, and etc. People act like these are the worst times but great progress had been made. Piers was on Real Time a few weeks back with his sky is falling schtick about free speech in the US. He is not dumb, but is he really not aware of how burning a flag would have gone over 60 years ago? A white man would have gotten his ass beat and a black man hung(maybe by the police in either case!). What about Elvis and rock-and-roll "smut"? Anyone remember X-rated films? We are relatively unbounded in 2022 lol. A bonified Indian immigrant runs Microsoft. I get it though. Was hoodwinked myself. Raised on Sesame Street and Fern Gully. Shocked that so many people were not on board with the social progress I took for granted. Parents who seemed progressive aged and now parrot Moon hoax and anti-vax talking points.. I'm impatient too. What can we change what can I do?! How can we see this promise fulfilled in my lifetime?! Maybe we can't though. Bad policy is bad policy. Bottom-up has been the real progress. Starts with the children. Gay marriage? The children. People coming out; don't talk about my child/nephew/niece/sister/brother/friends child like that! It's a journey like security and performance. You don't just "solve" security at a company; "Whelp we finished those tickets and now we have achieved security; our work here is done!". MAGA? We are greater now than ever before. Ask a 70 year old black man from the south how great America was..
beej71 4y ago
At least in the US, things don't tend to simply improve with time. It's a decades- or centuries-long fight, tooth and nail. And things are much better now in terms of university diversity than they were even 30 years ago. But people have been fighting that fight this entire time. This right here is the level of urgency that will reach its goal in 2-4 generations, if we're lucky.
- gnull 4y ago
  I didn't mean we shouldn't be doing anything. I said that we need to accept that it's going to take those centuries and plan accordingly. The "here and now" people are the ones who need to realize this the most. > This right here is the level of urgency that will reach its goal in 2-4 generations "2-4 generations from now" is the exact level of urgency to reach the goal in 2-4 generations. Inflating the urgency of things spends the precious trust people have in you, and harms our decisions by making us miss some things that actually are more urgent. To list a few global things that are more urgent than this discrimination issue of rich Western countries: global warming, sustainability, poverty in other countries, war in Ukraine and other military conflicts, poor education (yes, I'm looking at you, US), autocratic dictatorships all over the world.
neotrope 4y ago
We already know this isn't going to work. Culture is the driving force that elevates people. If you didn't grow up in a broken home, were encouraged and supported in your education and pushed to make the rights choices in life, you grew up in a winning culture.

by gnull 4y ago

Rapzid 4y ago

Agree; it IS decades later right now. Thank you Sesame Street, thank you counter-culture alum that went on to dominate our media and children's programming (pun intended). The diversity initiatives are misguided attempts by those raised to care about it to fast-track the process. Now they are adults and impatient to see more change that really only occurs generationally. Not everyone came along for the ride though and they absolutely know what Sesame Street and friends did. Hence the attacks on PBS, schools, and etc. People act like these are the worst times but great progress had been made. Piers was on Real Time a few weeks back with his sky is falling schtick about free speech in the US. He is not dumb, but is he really not aware of how burning a flag would have gone over 60 years ago? A white man would have gotten his ass beat and a black man hung(maybe by the police in either case!). What about Elvis and rock-and-roll "smut"? Anyone remember X-rated films? We are relatively unbounded in 2022 lol. A bonified Indian immigrant runs Microsoft. I get it though. Was hoodwinked myself. Raised on Sesame Street and Fern Gully. Shocked that so many people were not on board with the social progress I took for granted. Parents who seemed progressive aged and now parrot Moon hoax and anti-vax talking points.. I'm impatient too. What can we change what can I do?! How can we see this promise fulfilled in my lifetime?! Maybe we can't though. Bad policy is bad policy. Bottom-up has been the real progress. Starts with the children. Gay marriage? The children. People coming out; don't talk about my child/nephew/niece/sister/brother/friends child like that! It's a journey like security and performance. You don't just "solve" security at a company; "Whelp we finished those tickets and now we have achieved security; our work here is done!". MAGA? We are greater now than ever before. Ask a 70 year old black man from the south how great America was..

beej71 4y ago

At least in the US, things don't tend to simply improve with time. It's a decades- or centuries-long fight, tooth and nail. And things are much better now in terms of university diversity than they were even 30 years ago. But people have been fighting that fight this entire time. This right here is the level of urgency that will reach its goal in 2-4 generations, if we're lucky.

gnull 4y ago
I didn't mean we shouldn't be doing anything. I said that we need to accept that it's going to take those centuries and plan accordingly. The "here and now" people are the ones who need to realize this the most. > This right here is the level of urgency that will reach its goal in 2-4 generations "2-4 generations from now" is the exact level of urgency to reach the goal in 2-4 generations. Inflating the urgency of things spends the precious trust people have in you, and harms our decisions by making us miss some things that actually are more urgent. To list a few global things that are more urgent than this discrimination issue of rich Western countries: global warming, sustainability, poverty in other countries, war in Ukraine and other military conflicts, poor education (yes, I'm looking at you, US), autocratic dictatorships all over the world.

neotrope 4y ago

We already know this isn't going to work. Culture is the driving force that elevates people. If you didn't grow up in a broken home, were encouraged and supported in your education and pushed to make the rights choices in life, you grew up in a winning culture.