4 ms·

I do agree that the US immigration system sucks. As an Australian, you may not realize the current state of immigration policy in your own country. I'm an Amer

I do agree that the US immigration system sucks. As an Australian, you may not realize the current state of immigration policy in your own country. I'm an American and I live and work in Sydney. I came in on the 457 subclass visa. Not sure if you're familiar with it. It's pretty much the same as the H1B (No E-3 equivalent in the other direction unfortunately). The employer has to prove the job can't be filled by a domestic worker. This particular visa program is also rife with abuse by employers looking to keep costs down [1]. A typical H1B visa holder in the USA would have their health insurance paid for by their employer. 457 visa holders are usually required to purchase their own since everyone else is covered under the national health care system. H1B visa holder's children in the USA can attend public schools for free. 457 visa holders in Australia have to pay public school tuition (~$5k/year/child) in Australia on top of paying normal federal and state taxes. Personally, I'm very satisfied with my situation but this isn't the case with all 457 visa holders. Much like the US, Australia is a nation of immigrants. Most people I've met here are 2nd generation (i.e. their parents immigrated). Yet, there is a surprising amount of opposition to immigration[2]. [1]http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/employers-avoid-fines-despite-visa-abuse-sanctions-20110725-1hx98.html http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/employers-avoid-fines-despite-visa... [2]http://www.smh.com.au/national/allout-assault-over-issue-of-boat-people-20110821-1j4sg.html http://www.smh.com.au/national/allout-assault-over-issue-of-...

cletus 15y ago
Firstly, you're quite right: I'm not aware of how the 457 works in Australia since (obviously) I don't have to get one. My understanding though is that in spite of the problems you brought up (which are news to me), at least processing is very quick and the process itself doesn't seem to be subject to as much politicking as the US system (IMHO). As for the health insurance [1], this is definitely news to me and I'm a little surprised because it was passed by the Labor (left-wing) government. It's not all bad though: there are arrangements for countries with reciprocal health care agreements (mainly a handful of European countries). If you think about it, that's fair enough. A broken arm in the US without health insurance could bankrupt me. The US doesn't provide Australians health care. Why should Australia provide it to Americans? It's just that the US doesn't provide health care to Americans either. It's a good tip for those going to work in Australia: negotiate for employer-paid health insurance. Honestly though, I don't think Australia is such a great place to live anymore (compared to 10+ years ago) for no other reason than the insane cost of living. It's cheaper for me to live in downtown Manhattan than it is in inner-city Perth and buying lunch doesn't cost me $15 here. But I digress... It is my understanding the Australian visa and residency system isn't paralyzed however. Getting a residency visa is (or at least was) relatively straightforward if you're degree-qualified and you speak English. I agree that there is anti-immigration sentiment but the example you point to about illegal immigration (namely "boat people" from Indonesia and beyond). The problem there is that an awful lot of "asylum seekers" are nothing more than "economic migrants" attempting to jump the queue, where such migration is paid for by essentially indentured servitude to people smugglers once they arrive, possibly for years. There are many reasons to clamp down on illegal immigration. [1]: http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/457-health-insurance-faq-visa-holder.htm http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/457-health-insurance-faq-visa...
- teyc 15y ago
  Immigrant living in Australia writing here. The problem in Australia is it can get rather parochial, especially in areas such as medicine. In contrast, the US is more open in this regard. The degree of difficulty to immigrate to US or Australia is relatively similar. Therefore, it is difficult to say that more immigration will create more jobs. Rather, there are some deep seated structural problems with the US economy at present, and the way Australia copies the US in all manner of politics, it will not be long before these problems arrive at our shores.
- brc 15y ago
  I saw an article in a British paper last week. It basically said the UK-Australia people flow is drastically declining. They went on about a whole lot of made-up factors like people missing their families and the rest, but the simple fact of the matter is that the cost of living in Australia is out of control. It used to be you could sell your crappy 2 bedroom semi in an outer London suburb and move to a nice big home in Australia, and have plenty of money left over to send the kids to a good school. Nowadays that's not the case. Same for the young Australian - you used to be able to go to London for a couple of years, save up your money and come back with a decent stash of savings. Also no longer the case. Honestly I think Australia is choking on it's property prices which has fuelled massive debts. It's why your chicken sandwich costs $15, because the rents are out of control because of the price the owner paid for the shop. W/regards to not having access to Australian healthcare, I already knew that because I met a NZ guy ages ago who explained the whole deal. Not sure what the situation is now but back when the conversation took place there was no reciprocal agreement and people from NZ had to pay full-freight to get access to healthcare.
  - Zakharov 15y ago
    Well, the Australian dollar has doubled in value. That makes it much harder to migrate.
    - brc 15y ago
      Yes, that was my point, though sadly I seem to have omitted it. Also, the UK authorities are making it much harder for Australians to stay on after completing a 2 year working holiday visa.
brc 15y ago
I don't think it's fair to conflate the issue of illegal boat arrivals with immigration. Most Australians are OK with immigration in principle and practice. It is, as already described, a nation of immigrants. The thing they don't like is the people smuggling business bringing in those who claim refugee status, after destroying their documents saying who they are. I think the general attitude is - you can immigrate, just get in line and fill out the forms like everyone else. You may see this as the same but I don't think the average person on the street does.
obiterdictum 15y ago
"457 visa holders are usually required to purchase their own since everyone else is covered under the national health care system." Not sure if you are aware of this, but if you are not entitled to Medicare, you are exempt from paying Medicare levy (and surcharge), which the rest of the residents do have to pay. Though, you have to get it back with tax refund at the end of the financial year (it is paid with PAYG taxes) after you apply for a letter from Medicare that you weren't eligible. Private hospital insurance should cost you about the same per year, so it's a fair arrangement, I think.

cletus 15y ago

Firstly, you're quite right: I'm not aware of how the 457 works in Australia since (obviously) I don't have to get one. My understanding though is that in spite of the problems you brought up (which are news to me), at least processing is very quick and the process itself doesn't seem to be subject to as much politicking as the US system (IMHO). As for the health insurance [1], this is definitely news to me and I'm a little surprised because it was passed by the Labor (left-wing) government. It's not all bad though: there are arrangements for countries with reciprocal health care agreements (mainly a handful of European countries). If you think about it, that's fair enough. A broken arm in the US without health insurance could bankrupt me. The US doesn't provide Australians health care. Why should Australia provide it to Americans? It's just that the US doesn't provide health care to Americans either. It's a good tip for those going to work in Australia: negotiate for employer-paid health insurance. Honestly though, I don't think Australia is such a great place to live anymore (compared to 10+ years ago) for no other reason than the insane cost of living. It's cheaper for me to live in downtown Manhattan than it is in inner-city Perth and buying lunch doesn't cost me $15 here. But I digress... It is my understanding the Australian visa and residency system isn't paralyzed however. Getting a residency visa is (or at least was) relatively straightforward if you're degree-qualified and you speak English. I agree that there is anti-immigration sentiment but the example you point to about illegal immigration (namely "boat people" from Indonesia and beyond). The problem there is that an awful lot of "asylum seekers" are nothing more than "economic migrants" attempting to jump the queue, where such migration is paid for by essentially indentured servitude to people smugglers once they arrive, possibly for years. There are many reasons to clamp down on illegal immigration. [1]: http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/457-health-insurance-faq-visa-holder.htm http://www.immi.gov.au/skilled/457-health-insurance-faq-visa...

teyc 15y ago
Immigrant living in Australia writing here. The problem in Australia is it can get rather parochial, especially in areas such as medicine. In contrast, the US is more open in this regard. The degree of difficulty to immigrate to US or Australia is relatively similar. Therefore, it is difficult to say that more immigration will create more jobs. Rather, there are some deep seated structural problems with the US economy at present, and the way Australia copies the US in all manner of politics, it will not be long before these problems arrive at our shores.
brc 15y ago
I saw an article in a British paper last week. It basically said the UK-Australia people flow is drastically declining. They went on about a whole lot of made-up factors like people missing their families and the rest, but the simple fact of the matter is that the cost of living in Australia is out of control. It used to be you could sell your crappy 2 bedroom semi in an outer London suburb and move to a nice big home in Australia, and have plenty of money left over to send the kids to a good school. Nowadays that's not the case. Same for the young Australian - you used to be able to go to London for a couple of years, save up your money and come back with a decent stash of savings. Also no longer the case. Honestly I think Australia is choking on it's property prices which has fuelled massive debts. It's why your chicken sandwich costs $15, because the rents are out of control because of the price the owner paid for the shop. W/regards to not having access to Australian healthcare, I already knew that because I met a NZ guy ages ago who explained the whole deal. Not sure what the situation is now but back when the conversation took place there was no reciprocal agreement and people from NZ had to pay full-freight to get access to healthcare.
- Zakharov 15y ago
  Well, the Australian dollar has doubled in value. That makes it much harder to migrate.
  - brc 15y ago
    Yes, that was my point, though sadly I seem to have omitted it. Also, the UK authorities are making it much harder for Australians to stay on after completing a 2 year working holiday visa.

brc 15y ago

I don't think it's fair to conflate the issue of illegal boat arrivals with immigration. Most Australians are OK with immigration in principle and practice. It is, as already described, a nation of immigrants. The thing they don't like is the people smuggling business bringing in those who claim refugee status, after destroying their documents saying who they are. I think the general attitude is - you can immigrate, just get in line and fill out the forms like everyone else. You may see this as the same but I don't think the average person on the street does.

obiterdictum 15y ago

"457 visa holders are usually required to purchase their own since everyone else is covered under the national health care system." Not sure if you are aware of this, but if you are not entitled to Medicare, you are exempt from paying Medicare levy (and surcharge), which the rest of the residents do have to pay. Though, you have to get it back with tax refund at the end of the financial year (it is paid with PAYG taxes) after you apply for a letter from Medicare that you weren't eligible. Private hospital insurance should cost you about the same per year, so it's a fair arrangement, I think.