5 ms·

I first stumbled upon kiwifarms when the Christchurch livestream shooting happened. As I recall, the thread was filled with jokes, memes, and other disturbing

I first stumbled upon kiwifarms when the Christchurch livestream shooting happened. As I recall, the thread was filled with jokes, memes, and other disturbing comments made by the members of this "community" which seemed to support the shooter's actions in spirit, albeit perhaps only in jest. The owner also took this time to mock the entire country of NZ. I have no doubts about these other claims. Shouldn't any company should have every right to refuse this kind of behavior occurring on their platforms?

HereIGoAgain 4y ago
>"The owner also took this time to mock the entire country of NZ" Only after said government tried to get him to turn over all information about everyone who viewed the video, read the MF or even commented on the shooting. (OC all occurring AFTER the fact/shooting) All happening right around the same time the government there was literally locking people up for merely viewing any of it. Full police state kind of tactics. He told them to fuck off when they demanded he help them hunt down unrelated innocent people. Again, this isn't happening on "their platform", they aren't hosts, only acting as network infrastructure. Which is and should always remain neutral.. For the survival of the internet and for freedom!
unknownaccount 4y ago
The problem with hosting providers closing down websites over non-criminal speech violations is that it enables anyone with a grudge to shut down any website they dislike. Previously it used to take a court order to shut down a website, Nowadays any old troll can make a few death threats against themselves using Tor, take a few screenshots, report them to the host and the site gets taken down. Even if the webmaster quickly removes the comments it evidently isnt good enough. because as we've seen recently with Cloudflare hosting providers are now retroactively punishing sites for since-deleted content. This introduces a massive Denial-of-Service vulnerabiliy that webmasters have no way to mitigate unless they close off comments entirely. You might not like Kiwifarms and think this was a good thing, but next time it might be your favorite gaming forum or hobby site that trolls get taken down using this method.
- throwawayKiwi9 4y ago
  Platform moderation is complex, but this being some new hypothetical vulnerability to remove any website from existence is simply not true. Are you suggesting we make it illegal for Cloudflare to do this?
k1d 4y ago
> As I recall, the thread was filled with jokes, memes, and other disturbing comments made by the members of this "community" which seemed to support the shooter's actions in spirit, albeit perhaps only in jest. i recall one new account that signed up that was unequivocally pro-terrorist which also called for a "10x worse" shooting to happen in the UK and it was immediately flagged down as a fedpost by other users, so i have my reservations about sentiment of the forum being pro-shooter. the same account would become active 3 years later as one of the bomb threats earlier last week, just for reference.
- throwawayKiwi9 4y ago
  Yup, sure sounds like an internet cesspool to me. I certainly wouldn't want this running on my servers.
  - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
    Well they weren't running on anyone but the owner of the site's servers so don't really understand the point of your post.
  - unknownaccount 4y ago
    Dont you understand that if your website accepts user-generated comments then what users post is completely out of your control? All you can do is delete the comments. But that isn't considered good enough anymore. How would you feel if a few rogue users did this to you and got your entire website deplatformed for something you were helpless to stop?
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      How come HN isn't full of death threats and toxicity and generally objectionable hate content? Your online community will adapt and shape itself to fit the moderation scheme and environment you build for. 4chan doesn't attract the clientele it does because shitty people flock to it, 4chan has the clientele it does because it's one of the only places shitty people can go be shitty in public and not be ostracized for it. If you run a business, it's okay for you to tell shitty people that they aren't welcome, as long as you don't consider them shitty because of their skin color, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. Banning someone for personal opinions or disgusting (to you) takes is a 1st amendment right of an individual and business. It's not cloudflare's responsibility to ensure that websites run by people they don't like remain reliable and capable of weathering attacks on their infrastructure. If cloudflare thinks you aren't doing enough to not be a toxic, violent, gross cesspit of hatred, it doesn't matter if you are actually working 24/7 to take down bad stuff. If I'm the biggest billboard maker in the US, I am within my right to not sell any billboards to the people who put up anti-abortion advertisements, purely because I don't like their message.

HereIGoAgain 4y ago

>"The owner also took this time to mock the entire country of NZ" Only after said government tried to get him to turn over all information about everyone who viewed the video, read the MF or even commented on the shooting. (OC all occurring AFTER the fact/shooting) All happening right around the same time the government there was literally locking people up for merely viewing any of it. Full police state kind of tactics. He told them to fuck off when they demanded he help them hunt down unrelated innocent people. Again, this isn't happening on "their platform", they aren't hosts, only acting as network infrastructure. Which is and should always remain neutral.. For the survival of the internet and for freedom!

unknownaccount 4y ago

The problem with hosting providers closing down websites over non-criminal speech violations is that it enables anyone with a grudge to shut down any website they dislike. Previously it used to take a court order to shut down a website, Nowadays any old troll can make a few death threats against themselves using Tor, take a few screenshots, report them to the host and the site gets taken down. Even if the webmaster quickly removes the comments it evidently isnt good enough. because as we've seen recently with Cloudflare hosting providers are now retroactively punishing sites for since-deleted content. This introduces a massive Denial-of-Service vulnerabiliy that webmasters have no way to mitigate unless they close off comments entirely. You might not like Kiwifarms and think this was a good thing, but next time it might be your favorite gaming forum or hobby site that trolls get taken down using this method.

throwawayKiwi9 4y ago
Platform moderation is complex, but this being some new hypothetical vulnerability to remove any website from existence is simply not true. Are you suggesting we make it illegal for Cloudflare to do this?

k1d 4y ago

> As I recall, the thread was filled with jokes, memes, and other disturbing comments made by the members of this "community" which seemed to support the shooter's actions in spirit, albeit perhaps only in jest. i recall one new account that signed up that was unequivocally pro-terrorist which also called for a "10x worse" shooting to happen in the UK and it was immediately flagged down as a fedpost by other users, so i have my reservations about sentiment of the forum being pro-shooter. the same account would become active 3 years later as one of the bomb threats earlier last week, just for reference.

throwawayKiwi9 4y ago
Yup, sure sounds like an internet cesspool to me. I certainly wouldn't want this running on my servers.
- HereIGoAgain 4y ago
  Well they weren't running on anyone but the owner of the site's servers so don't really understand the point of your post.
- unknownaccount 4y ago
  Dont you understand that if your website accepts user-generated comments then what users post is completely out of your control? All you can do is delete the comments. But that isn't considered good enough anymore. How would you feel if a few rogue users did this to you and got your entire website deplatformed for something you were helpless to stop?
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    How come HN isn't full of death threats and toxicity and generally objectionable hate content? Your online community will adapt and shape itself to fit the moderation scheme and environment you build for. 4chan doesn't attract the clientele it does because shitty people flock to it, 4chan has the clientele it does because it's one of the only places shitty people can go be shitty in public and not be ostracized for it. If you run a business, it's okay for you to tell shitty people that they aren't welcome, as long as you don't consider them shitty because of their skin color, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. Banning someone for personal opinions or disgusting (to you) takes is a 1st amendment right of an individual and business. It's not cloudflare's responsibility to ensure that websites run by people they don't like remain reliable and capable of weathering attacks on their infrastructure. If cloudflare thinks you aren't doing enough to not be a toxic, violent, gross cesspit of hatred, it doesn't matter if you are actually working 24/7 to take down bad stuff. If I'm the biggest billboard maker in the US, I am within my right to not sell any billboards to the people who put up anti-abortion advertisements, purely because I don't like their message.