4 ms·

Slightly? I barely use the brakes ever. Whoever is out braking in their EV all the time should have their DL revoked

epistasis 4y ago
I would like to see the numbers on this to quantify it. Because the places where EVs still do use brake pads is when they come to full stops at lights and stop signs, which tend to be far closer to people.
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  Brakes aren't necessary to stop an EV nor to hold a car at a stop on an incline. The only time a Tesla needs to use brake pads are for emergency stops and for the parking brake.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    That may be the case for a Tesla (never driven one) but the ride-share Smart EVs we have around Paris absolutely need brakes to come to a stand-still. They will decelerate fairly quickly to 20-25 kmph, but after that, the deceleration rate slows down, and it actually will never stop by itself. For some reason I can't understand, they tried to imitate ICE automatics that don't stand still if you don't have your foot on the brake pedal.
    - zelos 4y ago
      Pressing the brake pedal doesn’t mean the physical brakes are being used, though.
    - mikestew 4y ago
      For some reason I can't understand, they tried to imitate ICE automatics that don't stand still if you don't have your foot on the brake pedal. Even more annoying, as an owner of a Nissan Leaf that does this, is that the behavior is what I consider to be a bug in automatic transmissions. Manual transmissions don't do that, and there's no good reason for automatics to do that (and a hundred really good reasons for them not to). It's an artifact of the viscosity of the fluid it turns in, and it annoys me that my EV is bug-for-bug compatible with a device the car doesn't even have (a transmission).
giraffe_lady 4y ago
Where I live residential neighborhoods have 4-way stops at every intersection so preferably everyone would be braking all the time, yes. They obviously are not and cruising through stop signs (and sometimes killing children!) is the norm. If EVs encourage this driving style that is another strong point in favor of "electric cars can't solve the problem of cars."
- josephcsible 4y ago
  EVs can regenerate almost all the way to a stop, and only need to apply the brakes to hold the vehicle stopped.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  >They obviously are not and cruising through stop signs (and sometimes killing children!) is the norm. If EVs encourage this driving style that is another strong point in favor of "electric cars can't solve the problem of cars." You reap what you sow. A grid of 4-way stops where the traffic flow is not appropriate for them is a textbook perfect way to train drivers to habitually roll stop signs. I swear sometimes it seems like urban planners are hellbent on re-learning everything they learned in the 1920s.
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    I mean, the real issue is that American traffic engineering is usually loathe to put anything other than a 4-way stop. Americans do not properly yield at yield signs, roundabouts take too much room, and we haven’t figured out how to routinely build speed bumps or raised crosswalks for less than six figures. Also, it is a stretch to call some of that planning “learning” or “science.” As a general example, parking regulations for uses tend to be arbitrary, oversized and wildly out of date; most US retail parking lots are not full even on major shopping days like Black Friday before the advent of online, and now online is making all that space even more wasted.
    - cjrp 4y ago
      Roundabouts don’t have to take up more room than a stop-signed junction. We call them mini-roundabouts, and they’re often just painted on the ground and slightly raised so that you can still drive over them.
buran77 4y ago
Some drivers rely too much on one pedal driving only to brake in a panic when they realize it will not stop the car in time. This creates a very uncertain environment for other participants in traffic and I can't tell you how many times I had to step back from a crossing because a driver clearly misjudged the breaking distance of their car using regen braking. It creates a bit of complacency where the expectation is that "the car will take care of it" and one pedal driving does not give the same control over braking as it does over acceleration (or as the regular brake pedal does). Other drivers assume max regen settings will bring max benefits and end up taking more out of the battery to accelerate only to get far less back (regen braking is ~70% efficient in any EV) when the car regen-brakes, when braking was not really required. Many times coasting is far more efficient than regenerating regardless of what pedals you're using. Last but not least, all regenerative braking systems are combined with hydraulic braking at low speeds because the torque applied to decelerate is not enough in any of them. So at low speeds the car will actually combine it with friction braking and eventually not regen at all. Take the Zoe where there's no regen at all below 15km/h (9 mph). Emergency braking from high speed is the same. City driving will see a lot of those situations. So whether you realize it or not, when you are coming to a standstill you use the hydraulic brakes. There may be options to break at low speed with no friction at all but they will not be called regenerative because they will inevitably use energy to do it.

I would like to see the numbers on this to quantify it. Because the places where EVs still do use brake pads is when they come to full stops at lights and stop signs, which tend to be far closer to people.

bryanlarsen 4y ago
Brakes aren't necessary to stop an EV nor to hold a car at a stop on an incline. The only time a Tesla needs to use brake pads are for emergency stops and for the parking brake.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  That may be the case for a Tesla (never driven one) but the ride-share Smart EVs we have around Paris absolutely need brakes to come to a stand-still. They will decelerate fairly quickly to 20-25 kmph, but after that, the deceleration rate slows down, and it actually will never stop by itself. For some reason I can't understand, they tried to imitate ICE automatics that don't stand still if you don't have your foot on the brake pedal.
  - zelos 4y ago
    Pressing the brake pedal doesn’t mean the physical brakes are being used, though.
  - mikestew 4y ago
    For some reason I can't understand, they tried to imitate ICE automatics that don't stand still if you don't have your foot on the brake pedal. Even more annoying, as an owner of a Nissan Leaf that does this, is that the behavior is what I consider to be a bug in automatic transmissions. Manual transmissions don't do that, and there's no good reason for automatics to do that (and a hundred really good reasons for them not to). It's an artifact of the viscosity of the fluid it turns in, and it annoys me that my EV is bug-for-bug compatible with a device the car doesn't even have (a transmission).

giraffe_lady 4y ago

Where I live residential neighborhoods have 4-way stops at every intersection so preferably everyone would be braking all the time, yes. They obviously are not and cruising through stop signs (and sometimes killing children!) is the norm. If EVs encourage this driving style that is another strong point in favor of "electric cars can't solve the problem of cars."

josephcsible 4y ago
EVs can regenerate almost all the way to a stop, and only need to apply the brakes to hold the vehicle stopped.
throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>They obviously are not and cruising through stop signs (and sometimes killing children!) is the norm. If EVs encourage this driving style that is another strong point in favor of "electric cars can't solve the problem of cars." You reap what you sow. A grid of 4-way stops where the traffic flow is not appropriate for them is a textbook perfect way to train drivers to habitually roll stop signs. I swear sometimes it seems like urban planners are hellbent on re-learning everything they learned in the 1920s.
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  I mean, the real issue is that American traffic engineering is usually loathe to put anything other than a 4-way stop. Americans do not properly yield at yield signs, roundabouts take too much room, and we haven’t figured out how to routinely build speed bumps or raised crosswalks for less than six figures. Also, it is a stretch to call some of that planning “learning” or “science.” As a general example, parking regulations for uses tend to be arbitrary, oversized and wildly out of date; most US retail parking lots are not full even on major shopping days like Black Friday before the advent of online, and now online is making all that space even more wasted.
  - cjrp 4y ago
    Roundabouts don’t have to take up more room than a stop-signed junction. We call them mini-roundabouts, and they’re often just painted on the ground and slightly raised so that you can still drive over them.

buran77 4y ago

Some drivers rely too much on one pedal driving only to brake in a panic when they realize it will not stop the car in time. This creates a very uncertain environment for other participants in traffic and I can't tell you how many times I had to step back from a crossing because a driver clearly misjudged the breaking distance of their car using regen braking. It creates a bit of complacency where the expectation is that "the car will take care of it" and one pedal driving does not give the same control over braking as it does over acceleration (or as the regular brake pedal does). Other drivers assume max regen settings will bring max benefits and end up taking more out of the battery to accelerate only to get far less back (regen braking is ~70% efficient in any EV) when the car regen-brakes, when braking was not really required. Many times coasting is far more efficient than regenerating regardless of what pedals you're using. Last but not least, all regenerative braking systems are combined with hydraulic braking at low speeds because the torque applied to decelerate is not enough in any of them. So at low speeds the car will actually combine it with friction braking and eventually not regen at all. Take the Zoe where there's no regen at all below 15km/h (9 mph). Emergency braking from high speed is the same. City driving will see a lot of those situations. So whether you realize it or not, when you are coming to a standstill you use the hydraulic brakes. There may be options to break at low speed with no friction at all but they will not be called regenerative because they will inevitably use energy to do it.