8 ms·

Can you show me any statement in US law where such a practice is illegal? What you're describing sounds exactly like a casino.

by realce 4y ago

polygamous_bat 4y ago
U.S. Code § 1955 - Prohibition of illegal gambling businesses [1] stops you from starting a gambling parlor or casino on your basement without a government license. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1955 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1955
- realce 4y ago
  Oh so these folks were impacted by casino laws? That's what the Treasury said?
ouid 4y ago
it does doesnt it. Casinos certainly were money laundering establishments for the mob since their inception. The mobsters became politicians and stupid people argued that casinos provide public benefit on their behalf. The government decided that the only way to launder money through a casino was if the casino itself was in on it, and opted for heavy regulation on who can run casinos and how. People have still gotten away with money laundering through casinos but the regulations are onerous enough, and casinos profitable enough on their own, that the risk of getting completely shut down isnt worth it. Furthermore, actions are not usually the things that are illegal. Usually the law prohibits actions which cause a specific effect. Like murder or pollution. You dont get one free murder every time you figure out a new way to kill people.
thefreeman 4y ago
Do you think you can just anonymously cash out a million dollars in casino chips with no identification or KYC happening?
- realce 4y ago
  Do you think the statements "sounds like" and "is exactly" are the same thing? Almost like your point is that there's distinct legislation targeting a distinct pathway of money laundering, just like my original point was?
salawat 4y ago
https://bsaaml.ffiec.gov/references/regulations https://bsaaml.ffiec.gov/references/regulations Here ya go. By the by, all of this is to be known or planned out before becoming a money transmitter. I.e., if you cannot do this, you are not legally allowed to serve as a money transmitter.
- realce 4y ago
  But - here ya go - crypto is not money, it's real property. Tornado cash is not a bank, it allows you to swap random Pokemon cards between its' users.
  - polygamous_bat 4y ago
    Great news, helping people get rid of their stolen goods, aka "fencing" is also illegal. [1] https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1343-criminal-redistribution-stolen-property-fencing https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual...
    - realce 4y ago
      I'm sure that's why eBay, Craigslist, and every other marketplace are blocked by the US Treasury? "Great news" pfft come on.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      Prosecute the road crews building the interstate. They know building the road helps people sell and transport stolen goods, yet the road crew does nothing to stop them.
  - salawat 4y ago
    https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20Guidance%20CVC%20FINAL%20508.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20... Here ya go. If you use Pokemon cards in such a way as there is a reasonable expectation they may get converted back to dollary-dos, you are required to track that too. Sorry mate. Nice try. But no. Thank you, come again. I get it. It's frustrating. If only the means of exchange wasn't such a pivotal part of criminal enterprise, or people would just not do illegal things, we could have nice things. Alas, tis not the case.

Can you show me any statement in US law where such a practice is illegal? What you're describing sounds exactly like a casino.

by realce 4y ago

Can you show me any statement in US law where such a practice is illegal? What you're describing sounds exactly like a casino.

polygamous_bat 4y ago

U.S. Code § 1955 - Prohibition of illegal gambling businesses [1] stops you from starting a gambling parlor or casino on your basement without a government license. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1955 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1955

realce 4y ago
Oh so these folks were impacted by casino laws? That's what the Treasury said?

ouid 4y ago

it does doesnt it. Casinos certainly were money laundering establishments for the mob since their inception. The mobsters became politicians and stupid people argued that casinos provide public benefit on their behalf. The government decided that the only way to launder money through a casino was if the casino itself was in on it, and opted for heavy regulation on who can run casinos and how. People have still gotten away with money laundering through casinos but the regulations are onerous enough, and casinos profitable enough on their own, that the risk of getting completely shut down isnt worth it. Furthermore, actions are not usually the things that are illegal. Usually the law prohibits actions which cause a specific effect. Like murder or pollution. You dont get one free murder every time you figure out a new way to kill people.

thefreeman 4y ago

Do you think you can just anonymously cash out a million dollars in casino chips with no identification or KYC happening?

realce 4y ago
Do you think the statements "sounds like" and "is exactly" are the same thing? Almost like your point is that there's distinct legislation targeting a distinct pathway of money laundering, just like my original point was?

salawat 4y ago

https://bsaaml.ffiec.gov/references/regulations https://bsaaml.ffiec.gov/references/regulations Here ya go. By the by, all of this is to be known or planned out before becoming a money transmitter. I.e., if you cannot do this, you are not legally allowed to serve as a money transmitter.

realce 4y ago
But - here ya go - crypto is not money, it's real property. Tornado cash is not a bank, it allows you to swap random Pokemon cards between its' users.
- polygamous_bat 4y ago
  Great news, helping people get rid of their stolen goods, aka "fencing" is also illegal. [1] https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1343-criminal-redistribution-stolen-property-fencing https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual...
  - realce 4y ago
    I'm sure that's why eBay, Craigslist, and every other marketplace are blocked by the US Treasury? "Great news" pfft come on.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Prosecute the road crews building the interstate. They know building the road helps people sell and transport stolen goods, yet the road crew does nothing to stop them.
- salawat 4y ago
  https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20Guidance%20CVC%20FINAL%20508.pdf https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20... Here ya go. If you use Pokemon cards in such a way as there is a reasonable expectation they may get converted back to dollary-dos, you are required to track that too. Sorry mate. Nice try. But no. Thank you, come again. I get it. It's frustrating. If only the means of exchange wasn't such a pivotal part of criminal enterprise, or people would just not do illegal things, we could have nice things. Alas, tis not the case.