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I don’t think you have the right to speak for the British people. Neither do I. Let’s see.

by simonh 4y ago

smcl 4y ago
Lets take a look at what the British people think so far: https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1568923296753762304 https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/156892329675376230...
- maccard 4y ago
  Scottish people.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    Considering they recently publicly decided to be British, they're about as British as you can be.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - smcl 4y ago
      Heh touché, but I think we can all agree that’s maybe not really reflective of popular regional attitudes towards “British”-ness. And I suppose we will see as the parade travels south and crossese the border, but I don’t think you will see the same sort of anti-Charles sentiment in Manchester or London.
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Fair, I didn't like what look like a dismissal of the Scottish people's Britishness.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      Technically, Scots as in those born in Scotland and still living there voted to not be British. The vote was open to all living in Scotland (above the age of 16), which includes many people from the other nations such as England who may (or may not) consider themselves Scots, and conversely some people may consider themselves Scots but not live in Scotland.
      - simonh 4y ago
        > The vote was open to all living in Scotland In other words, people with an unambiguous stake in the outcome.
  - smcl 4y ago
    Scots aren’t British? That’s great news, I’m gonna go update my passport!
    - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
      1. "Let's take a look a look at what humans think about communism: <link to a video about North Koreans praising their leader>" 2. "That's just north koreans" 3. "North koreans aren't humans?" Comment #3 is not a valid counterargument to comment #2. The point is that Scots may not be a representative sample of "all Brits", even if Scots are Brits.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - smcl 4y ago
        No, my (possibly too subtle) point was that this might be the moment where Scots begin to cease thinking of themselves as Brits. I don't think there's any danger of the DPRK declaring themselves non-human
    - simonh 4y ago
      They aren’t “the British people”. Obviously.
sanitycheck 4y ago
I'm British, I want them gone. I'm not under any illusions that we have a meritocratic society but while we have a hereditary bloody monarchy I honestly feel somewhat gaslit whenever anyone claims we do (and they do claim that).
- simonh 4y ago
  No system of government or society is pure, adhering to an unblemished ideal system. No communist government has been purely communist, no democratic system is perfectly democratic, no meritocratic system excludes all possible factors contrary to meritocracy. I don’t believe anyone has ever said our system is perfectly and ideally meritocratic in every way. That’s not what any reasonable person would take the statement “our system is meritocratic” as meaning. It’s mostly meritocratic. Compared to many other systems, along with other comparable liberal democracies I’d argue it’s one of the most meritocratic systems developed so far. It’s also one of the most free, and the fact is free human beings don’t always make every decision based on merit. I think it’s clear if we chose to get rid of the monarchy we could do so through democratic mechanisms. So far we have chosen not to do so.
  - sanitycheck 4y ago
    It's mostly meritocratic for the little people. 94% of UK children go to state schools, but only 50% of MPs went - and that's considered good. A little bit of strawmanning there, implying I'm insisting on an unblemished ideal system. I simply think there's plenty of room for improvement on what we have, and stripping one family of a birthright to rule would count towards it. I don't think it's at all clear we could get rid of the monarchy through democratic mechanisms! But that's rather besides the point - we wouldn't try, because the amount of state & media propaganda shovelled at us will prevent most people from wanting that. Unless some troubling events fast-track Harry & Meghan to the top of the succession order, of course.

I don’t think you have the right to speak for the British people. Neither do I. Let’s see.

by simonh 4y ago

I don’t think you have the right to speak for the British people. Neither do I. Let’s see.

smcl 4y ago

Lets take a look at what the British people think so far: https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/1568923296753762304 https://twitter.com/PhantomPower14/status/156892329675376230...

maccard 4y ago
Scottish people.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  Considering they recently publicly decided to be British, they're about as British as you can be.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - smcl 4y ago
    Heh touché, but I think we can all agree that’s maybe not really reflective of popular regional attitudes towards “British”-ness. And I suppose we will see as the parade travels south and crossese the border, but I don’t think you will see the same sort of anti-Charles sentiment in Manchester or London.
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      Fair, I didn't like what look like a dismissal of the Scottish people's Britishness.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    Technically, Scots as in those born in Scotland and still living there voted to not be British. The vote was open to all living in Scotland (above the age of 16), which includes many people from the other nations such as England who may (or may not) consider themselves Scots, and conversely some people may consider themselves Scots but not live in Scotland.
    - simonh 4y ago
      > The vote was open to all living in Scotland In other words, people with an unambiguous stake in the outcome.
- smcl 4y ago
  Scots aren’t British? That’s great news, I’m gonna go update my passport!
  - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
    1. "Let's take a look a look at what humans think about communism: <link to a video about North Koreans praising their leader>" 2. "That's just north koreans" 3. "North koreans aren't humans?" Comment #3 is not a valid counterargument to comment #2. The point is that Scots may not be a representative sample of "all Brits", even if Scots are Brits.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - smcl 4y ago
      No, my (possibly too subtle) point was that this might be the moment where Scots begin to cease thinking of themselves as Brits. I don't think there's any danger of the DPRK declaring themselves non-human
  - simonh 4y ago
    They aren’t “the British people”. Obviously.

sanitycheck 4y ago

I'm British, I want them gone. I'm not under any illusions that we have a meritocratic society but while we have a hereditary bloody monarchy I honestly feel somewhat gaslit whenever anyone claims we do (and they do claim that).

simonh 4y ago
No system of government or society is pure, adhering to an unblemished ideal system. No communist government has been purely communist, no democratic system is perfectly democratic, no meritocratic system excludes all possible factors contrary to meritocracy. I don’t believe anyone has ever said our system is perfectly and ideally meritocratic in every way. That’s not what any reasonable person would take the statement “our system is meritocratic” as meaning. It’s mostly meritocratic. Compared to many other systems, along with other comparable liberal democracies I’d argue it’s one of the most meritocratic systems developed so far. It’s also one of the most free, and the fact is free human beings don’t always make every decision based on merit. I think it’s clear if we chose to get rid of the monarchy we could do so through democratic mechanisms. So far we have chosen not to do so.
- sanitycheck 4y ago
  It's mostly meritocratic for the little people. 94% of UK children go to state schools, but only 50% of MPs went - and that's considered good. A little bit of strawmanning there, implying I'm insisting on an unblemished ideal system. I simply think there's plenty of room for improvement on what we have, and stripping one family of a birthright to rule would count towards it. I don't think it's at all clear we could get rid of the monarchy through democratic mechanisms! But that's rather besides the point - we wouldn't try, because the amount of state & media propaganda shovelled at us will prevent most people from wanting that. Unless some troubling events fast-track Harry & Meghan to the top of the succession order, of course.