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I think saying that physical activity accounts for the differences in weight isn't supported by the evidence. I mean, surely if eating pure honey for half your

by elil17 4y ago

I think saying that physical activity accounts for the differences in weight isn't supported by the evidence. I mean, surely if eating pure honey for half your calories but exercising a bunch led to good health outcomes and lower weight, we'd see people losing weight by exercising without dieting. We don't see that. Similarly, look at their article on obesity in different professions - it does not align with who does the most physical labor. Rather, certain professions with high levels of exposure to endocrine disruptions are the most obese on average.

Tade0 4y ago
There's an interesting book supporting this idea: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603894/burn-by-herman-pontzer-phd/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603894/burn-by-herm... Basically measurements of calorie intake and burn rate indicate, that physical activity doesn't appreciably speed up metabolism. You still should exercise to avoid chronic diseases, but you can't outrun a bad diet.
- kiba 4y ago
  You can outrun a bad diet IMHO. There's a point in which physical activity outrun the body's willingness to adjust basal metabolism. However, it is not really practical for most people to use exercises to burn calories. Rather diets are more important and more effective.
marcusverus 4y ago
It seems like you're projecting modern abundance backwards onto a period of relative scarcity. Hunter-gatherers could not possibly have satisfied half of their calories with honey. A google search indicates that: a) a pound of honey (~1500 calories) would account for a little over half of a man's daily required calories (Google says 2500, but presumably an active hunter-gatherer required more), and b) the average (wild) beehive creates ~50 pounds of honey per year. For a single man to satisfy half of his caloric intake with honey, he'd have to consume ~7.3 beehives per year. A tribe of 100 would consume the production of ~700 wild beehives each year!
- elil17 4y ago
  The series of articles I posted talks about a tribe where this is the case. Very fit people who get a ton of calories from honey.
oneoff786 4y ago
Doing a tough 1 hour exercise is not the same as being on your feet all day. You may be able to offset doing nothing all day with a burst of effort. You may not. People who are moving constantly are very rarely fat. I cannot find their article on professions. I’d be very skeptical. In general being poor in America means a terrible diet is likely so that’s a huge part of the equation. It seems very unlikely that exposure to endocrine disrupters varies enough to explain the differences. People in poverty will have a huge variance in exposure but the obesity rates are high across the board. Especially if you see something like… idk, factory workers being called high exposure having high obesity but lower obesity than something like a dmv clerk that’s totally sedentary but at worst median level exposure. Some groups will get HUGELY more exposure to some chemicals. I’m not convinced at all they represent the fattest groups. Which is a strong counterpoint if one is trying to claim this is the strongest effect.
- elil17 4y ago
  Why then, for example, are cleaning services workers, mechanics, and health workers all more obese than average? Those are jobs where you are much more active than an office worker. Those are all cases where someone gets exposed to chemicals (cleaning chemicals, lithium grease, and PFAS-based medical fabrics). In fact, healthcare support workers are more obese than healthcare technicians, even though technicians are more sedentary. Support workers are the ones changing PFAS-based curtains, garments, etc.
  - boltzmann-brain 4y ago
    it's easier to explain it by more stress, less money, less ability to care for their health or eat healthily, etc etc.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    The number one most obese job is a truck driver. Your hypothesis is that chemicals cause obesity. You cite cleaning services workers as receiving substantially more chemicals due to their work than the average person. Why then, are truckers more obese? If this is the primary factor causing obesity, and these people are receiving substantially more exposure than everyone else, why aren't they substantially the fattest group? Also fwiw, the idea that healthcare support workers are supposed to represent the largest exposure to PFAS because they're handling garments is ridiculous. I doubt healthcare support workers are even in the top 10% of actual exposure levels.

by elil17 4y ago

Tade0 4y ago

There's an interesting book supporting this idea: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603894/burn-by-herman-pontzer-phd/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603894/burn-by-herm... Basically measurements of calorie intake and burn rate indicate, that physical activity doesn't appreciably speed up metabolism. You still should exercise to avoid chronic diseases, but you can't outrun a bad diet.

kiba 4y ago
You can outrun a bad diet IMHO. There's a point in which physical activity outrun the body's willingness to adjust basal metabolism. However, it is not really practical for most people to use exercises to burn calories. Rather diets are more important and more effective.

marcusverus 4y ago

It seems like you're projecting modern abundance backwards onto a period of relative scarcity. Hunter-gatherers could not possibly have satisfied half of their calories with honey. A google search indicates that: a) a pound of honey (~1500 calories) would account for a little over half of a man's daily required calories (Google says 2500, but presumably an active hunter-gatherer required more), and b) the average (wild) beehive creates ~50 pounds of honey per year. For a single man to satisfy half of his caloric intake with honey, he'd have to consume ~7.3 beehives per year. A tribe of 100 would consume the production of ~700 wild beehives each year!

elil17 4y ago
The series of articles I posted talks about a tribe where this is the case. Very fit people who get a ton of calories from honey.

oneoff786 4y ago

Doing a tough 1 hour exercise is not the same as being on your feet all day. You may be able to offset doing nothing all day with a burst of effort. You may not. People who are moving constantly are very rarely fat. I cannot find their article on professions. I’d be very skeptical. In general being poor in America means a terrible diet is likely so that’s a huge part of the equation. It seems very unlikely that exposure to endocrine disrupters varies enough to explain the differences. People in poverty will have a huge variance in exposure but the obesity rates are high across the board. Especially if you see something like… idk, factory workers being called high exposure having high obesity but lower obesity than something like a dmv clerk that’s totally sedentary but at worst median level exposure. Some groups will get HUGELY more exposure to some chemicals. I’m not convinced at all they represent the fattest groups. Which is a strong counterpoint if one is trying to claim this is the strongest effect.

elil17 4y ago
Why then, for example, are cleaning services workers, mechanics, and health workers all more obese than average? Those are jobs where you are much more active than an office worker. Those are all cases where someone gets exposed to chemicals (cleaning chemicals, lithium grease, and PFAS-based medical fabrics). In fact, healthcare support workers are more obese than healthcare technicians, even though technicians are more sedentary. Support workers are the ones changing PFAS-based curtains, garments, etc.
- boltzmann-brain 4y ago
  it's easier to explain it by more stress, less money, less ability to care for their health or eat healthily, etc etc.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  The number one most obese job is a truck driver. Your hypothesis is that chemicals cause obesity. You cite cleaning services workers as receiving substantially more chemicals due to their work than the average person. Why then, are truckers more obese? If this is the primary factor causing obesity, and these people are receiving substantially more exposure than everyone else, why aren't they substantially the fattest group? Also fwiw, the idea that healthcare support workers are supposed to represent the largest exposure to PFAS because they're handling garments is ridiculous. I doubt healthcare support workers are even in the top 10% of actual exposure levels.