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The issue is not WFH. The issue is that you work with incompetant people. Even if those people were sitting in a chair at the office, they are likely procrastin

The issue is not WFH. The issue is that you work with incompetant people. Even if those people were sitting in a chair at the office, they are likely procrastinating all day, talking to everyone, not doing anything done. Sure they are harder to reach with WFH, but the reality is that they were very bad employees in the first place. If someone can't be reached on a day they are supposed to be working, well their manager should be addressing the issue and ask them what the fuck they were doing at that time. WFH or not, those are bad employees.

Gigachad 4y ago
What if the reality is that a large chunk of the population is just incompetent/lazy and performs better in an office environment where they are being watched?
- falcolas 4y ago
  Then perhaps the issue is the work and the pay, not the worker. I’ve found unmotivated people can appear incompetent or lazy, but it’s just a motivation issue that disappears once motivation returns.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    And what if it’s found that working in the office solves the problem cheaper than paying more?
    - falcolas 4y ago
      What makes you believe that they will do more work in the office, instead of finding other ways to do the bare minimum?
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    I've long suspected the "10x developer" is mostly (but perhaps not entirely!) a result of above-average ability to spot the right teams and projects for one to be successful, and/or some early luck, followed by compounding success because before long they have the reputation to get on the right kinds of teams doing the right kinds of (high-impact, enjoyable) projects that let them work their best and do things that are highly visible to important people in the company hierarchy. I think this is why famous developers tend to either stick with a place a long time, or bail really fast—in the latter case, because they realize they made a mistake and won't be as productive as usual, because the organization as it relates to them (key point: they may get special treatment many places, so their experience may not be everyone's) sucks. Lots of workers tough it out if it's not too bad, while people accustomed to being "10x" run the hell away if the management + team + project combo isn't just right for them. I bet my personal productivity has varied by at least 10x the lowest level, depending on where I'm working and what I'm working on, even adjusted for experience level and such, entirely due to work environment and the kinds of projects I'm on. Though perhaps that lowest-level was "0.1x" or whatever, I dunno.
    - celdon25 4y ago
      I’ve been 10x and 0.1x and everything in between. I don’t mind being less than 10x, but if I’m in a 1x org, I better not be expected to be 10x, and I better not need to put in a 10x level of effort to get to that 1x. And if I’m contributing 10x I would hope to be recognized as such. Sadly I’ve only had one job that allowed for the 10x and the recognition (the pay sucked though). Still holding out hope.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  I've been useless and I've been a rockstar, in different companies. The difference isn't me, but the organization. Too much "watching" sends me way toward the useless end of the spectrum, if anything, because it's stressful and I end up about half-depressed before long.

Gigachad 4y ago

What if the reality is that a large chunk of the population is just incompetent/lazy and performs better in an office environment where they are being watched?

falcolas 4y ago
Then perhaps the issue is the work and the pay, not the worker. I’ve found unmotivated people can appear incompetent or lazy, but it’s just a motivation issue that disappears once motivation returns.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  And what if it’s found that working in the office solves the problem cheaper than paying more?
  - falcolas 4y ago
    What makes you believe that they will do more work in the office, instead of finding other ways to do the bare minimum?
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  I've long suspected the "10x developer" is mostly (but perhaps not entirely!) a result of above-average ability to spot the right teams and projects for one to be successful, and/or some early luck, followed by compounding success because before long they have the reputation to get on the right kinds of teams doing the right kinds of (high-impact, enjoyable) projects that let them work their best and do things that are highly visible to important people in the company hierarchy. I think this is why famous developers tend to either stick with a place a long time, or bail really fast—in the latter case, because they realize they made a mistake and won't be as productive as usual, because the organization as it relates to them (key point: they may get special treatment many places, so their experience may not be everyone's) sucks. Lots of workers tough it out if it's not too bad, while people accustomed to being "10x" run the hell away if the management + team + project combo isn't just right for them. I bet my personal productivity has varied by at least 10x the lowest level, depending on where I'm working and what I'm working on, even adjusted for experience level and such, entirely due to work environment and the kinds of projects I'm on. Though perhaps that lowest-level was "0.1x" or whatever, I dunno.
  - celdon25 4y ago
    I’ve been 10x and 0.1x and everything in between. I don’t mind being less than 10x, but if I’m in a 1x org, I better not be expected to be 10x, and I better not need to put in a 10x level of effort to get to that 1x. And if I’m contributing 10x I would hope to be recognized as such. Sadly I’ve only had one job that allowed for the 10x and the recognition (the pay sucked though). Still holding out hope.
yamtaddle 4y ago
I've been useless and I've been a rockstar, in different companies. The difference isn't me, but the organization. Too much "watching" sends me way toward the useless end of the spectrum, if anything, because it's stressful and I end up about half-depressed before long.