7 ms·

It's a cool pet project, but not realistic. Even Mozilla can't compete. There isn't anything "new" to be done that will give a browser an edge over chromium. A

It's a cool pet project, but not realistic. Even Mozilla can't compete. There isn't anything "new" to be done that will give a browser an edge over chromium. And the elephant in the room, regardless of adoption it will never be on iphone.

trashburger 4y ago
Well, what is it trying to be "realistic" about? Does the announcement mention anything about taking over other browsers? I suggest reading https://justforfunnoreally.dev/ https://justforfunnoreally.dev/ .
wbear 4y ago
The armchair defeatist appears
neogodless 4y ago
> realistic They are doing it though; it's "real." Perhaps you are setting goals for them that they are not themselves setting? > can't compete You actually can read about their goals on the linked page, though. They are not attempting to "compete" with Chromium. > iphone So don't use iPhone, and use a phone that allows you to use the browser engine you want to!
- Ygg2 4y ago
  > They are doing it though; it's "real." It's obviously the grandparent meant it as not a toy implementation. As in, non computer literate people can use it without complaining about broken sites. The first 80% will take 10% of time. Now last 20% will take 90% of the time.
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    That’s irrelevant as it’s not a goal of the project
    - Ygg2 4y ago
      Ok, but then why get excited about it? I mean it neat, Andreas is a great programmer and can make stuff at amazing speed. There are lots of tiny quasi browsers lying around.
      - bowsamic 4y ago
        It’s exciting because Andreas is very inspiring and motivating and also the entire Serenity OS is very understandable and usable and basically a nicer version of C++. Just a browser would not be interesting, but a browser combined with a full exciting monorepo OS is
jonfw 4y ago
Mozilla competes just fine IMO - a developer who uses firefox 99% of the time
- devwastaken 4y ago
  Mozilla market share and lack of income begs to differ. They will be broke in less than 10 years, and either dissolve or reskin chromium. Browsers are now mobile tools, that's where the users and money is.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - philippejara 4y ago
    Even if we assume that is true, mozilla has already a mobile version that not only works very well but allows for things that the mobile chrome doesn't, the idea that a reskinned chromium would work better than firefox itself is...weird. There are two relevant phone OS's and they're owned by google and apple, both companies have their own browsers, firefox will never get wide default usage on phones regardless of the quality of their mobile browser, which I already believe to be extremely competitive. There is no winning going down this road for Mozilla other than maybe going the firefox phone route, and we all saw how that went.
    - rvz 4y ago
      Or maybe the truth in this is Firefox is a sinking ship and Mozilla is kept on life support as they are unable to make money outside of Google (a direct competitor) who is eating their lunch. I'm afraid there is no route for sustainability for Mozilla at this point.
prmoustache 4y ago
> Even Mozilla can't compete. Apparently they can't but they still do. Typing this from a mozilla browser. > realistic Having looked at the project and followed a few serenityos updates videos and if there is one word I would do to describe Andreas Kling and his contributors is that they are realistic about what they do and do not.
- Ygg2 4y ago
  > Typing this from a mozilla browser. Same, but I doubt I'll continue to do so in far future, unless something major changes. Mozilla seems to be inching closer and closer to just another Chromium. Like Google being forced to remove Chrome integration.
  - selfhoster11 4y ago
    That's a problem of internal governance, not technical impossibility.
    - Ygg2 4y ago
      It's not just internal governance. But it definitely didn't help. Google has been caught sabotaging browser based on user agent. In addition to its strong marketing machine.
  - salmo 4y ago
    > Mozilla seems to be inching closer and closer to just another Chromium. Not sure I understand this. I mean Chrome drives the feature set and performance, but it's not like Mozilla's switching to Blink/v8 AFAIK. Competition is good. Even the proliferation of WebKit/Blink browsers is fine to me. I run into the occasional site that does the block-by-user agent of ye olde IE days and an odd niche commercial product used by my company that only works in Chrome or Safari. And honestly, I hit more of the latter that only work in IE and I have to RDP to an old windows server host to use them. I like the Firefox UI better, and it doesn't get as sluggish as fill-in-your-chrome on my Mac. Now, that's "feel" and not measurable. Safari's a lot snappier, but too sparse for me. To me, browsers and OSes are like shoes. Pick what's comfortable to you. There's not a "right" answer. Addressing the thread more than you: This project never states it's trying to slay the giant. The whole argument is weird. I'll play with it once I can without compiling (I'm lazier than I used to be). It'll be fun. Probably not a daily driver, but interesting. And who knows? KHTML was a broken (and oft neglected) toy and now dominates with world via Blink/WebKit. We may all bemoan Ladybird in 20 years.
llllllllllll9 4y ago
realistic? compete? new? iphone?!???? you are lost.
redeeman 4y ago
> Even Mozilla can't compete. maybe if mozilla tried to compete, instead of all the irellevant activities they waste their energy on

trashburger 4y ago

Well, what is it trying to be "realistic" about? Does the announcement mention anything about taking over other browsers? I suggest reading https://justforfunnoreally.dev/ https://justforfunnoreally.dev/ .

wbear 4y ago

The armchair defeatist appears

neogodless 4y ago

> realistic They are doing it though; it's "real." Perhaps you are setting goals for them that they are not themselves setting? > can't compete You actually can read about their goals on the linked page, though. They are not attempting to "compete" with Chromium. > iphone So don't use iPhone, and use a phone that allows you to use the browser engine you want to!

Ygg2 4y ago
> They are doing it though; it's "real." It's obviously the grandparent meant it as not a toy implementation. As in, non computer literate people can use it without complaining about broken sites. The first 80% will take 10% of time. Now last 20% will take 90% of the time.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  That’s irrelevant as it’s not a goal of the project
  - Ygg2 4y ago
    Ok, but then why get excited about it? I mean it neat, Andreas is a great programmer and can make stuff at amazing speed. There are lots of tiny quasi browsers lying around.
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      It’s exciting because Andreas is very inspiring and motivating and also the entire Serenity OS is very understandable and usable and basically a nicer version of C++. Just a browser would not be interesting, but a browser combined with a full exciting monorepo OS is

jonfw 4y ago

Mozilla competes just fine IMO - a developer who uses firefox 99% of the time

devwastaken 4y ago
Mozilla market share and lack of income begs to differ. They will be broke in less than 10 years, and either dissolve or reskin chromium. Browsers are now mobile tools, that's where the users and money is.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- philippejara 4y ago
  Even if we assume that is true, mozilla has already a mobile version that not only works very well but allows for things that the mobile chrome doesn't, the idea that a reskinned chromium would work better than firefox itself is...weird. There are two relevant phone OS's and they're owned by google and apple, both companies have their own browsers, firefox will never get wide default usage on phones regardless of the quality of their mobile browser, which I already believe to be extremely competitive. There is no winning going down this road for Mozilla other than maybe going the firefox phone route, and we all saw how that went.
  - rvz 4y ago
    Or maybe the truth in this is Firefox is a sinking ship and Mozilla is kept on life support as they are unable to make money outside of Google (a direct competitor) who is eating their lunch. I'm afraid there is no route for sustainability for Mozilla at this point.

prmoustache 4y ago

> Even Mozilla can't compete. Apparently they can't but they still do. Typing this from a mozilla browser. > realistic Having looked at the project and followed a few serenityos updates videos and if there is one word I would do to describe Andreas Kling and his contributors is that they are realistic about what they do and do not.

Ygg2 4y ago
> Typing this from a mozilla browser. Same, but I doubt I'll continue to do so in far future, unless something major changes. Mozilla seems to be inching closer and closer to just another Chromium. Like Google being forced to remove Chrome integration.
- selfhoster11 4y ago
  That's a problem of internal governance, not technical impossibility.
  - Ygg2 4y ago
    It's not just internal governance. But it definitely didn't help. Google has been caught sabotaging browser based on user agent. In addition to its strong marketing machine.
- salmo 4y ago
  > Mozilla seems to be inching closer and closer to just another Chromium. Not sure I understand this. I mean Chrome drives the feature set and performance, but it's not like Mozilla's switching to Blink/v8 AFAIK. Competition is good. Even the proliferation of WebKit/Blink browsers is fine to me. I run into the occasional site that does the block-by-user agent of ye olde IE days and an odd niche commercial product used by my company that only works in Chrome or Safari. And honestly, I hit more of the latter that only work in IE and I have to RDP to an old windows server host to use them. I like the Firefox UI better, and it doesn't get as sluggish as fill-in-your-chrome on my Mac. Now, that's "feel" and not measurable. Safari's a lot snappier, but too sparse for me. To me, browsers and OSes are like shoes. Pick what's comfortable to you. There's not a "right" answer. Addressing the thread more than you: This project never states it's trying to slay the giant. The whole argument is weird. I'll play with it once I can without compiling (I'm lazier than I used to be). It'll be fun. Probably not a daily driver, but interesting. And who knows? KHTML was a broken (and oft neglected) toy and now dominates with world via Blink/WebKit. We may all bemoan Ladybird in 20 years.

llllllllllll9 4y ago

realistic? compete? new? iphone?!???? you are lost.

redeeman 4y ago

> Even Mozilla can't compete. maybe if mozilla tried to compete, instead of all the irellevant activities they waste their energy on