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The SQLite people not using git or hg is like the Bell Labs people and three-button-mouse heavy sam/acme: when you’re right about everything 99/100 times, that

The SQLite people not using git or hg is like the Bell Labs people and three-button-mouse heavy sam/acme: when you’re right about everything 99/100 times, that 100th time you’re really going to double down on some dumb-ass thing. In what possible world is telling the most successful set of design decisions about document management in the history of documents or management to get fucked not just “I’ve got goodwill to burn, let’s ride.”? SQLite is indeed badass, but cool it djb, I’m already stressing about the zero bugs ever thing.

HelloNurse 4y ago
Do you know SQLite is a few years older than Git?
- benreesman 4y ago
  Indeed. I started paying serious attention to SQL in 1994 once I had read Stroustrup so many times I could recite it aloud, when did you get into databases? Edit: I’d like to apologize for mouthing off like that. I’ve earned some amount of cranky old-timer cred, but not enough to just be a dick, which that was.
moeris 4y ago
> three-button-mouse heavy sam/acme Acme is great. I haven't been able to find another editor that integrates as tightly with the operating system. The closest I've gotten is Kakoune. And I wish mouse chording were a thing more generally. If we're going to use mice, we should optimize their utility.
- benreesman 4y ago
  https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/how-fast-fast-some-pro-gamers-make-10-moves-second-8c11422946 https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/how-fast-fast-some-pro-gam... claims that effective APM can hit 600, that sounds high to me but not by a lot. 10hz on the keyboard is probably not a realistic sustained rate for a hardcore vi/emacs user. I easily hit 4hz at the end of a 20 hour coding bender, and I’m old: the hot shit kids on modafinil must be doing 1.5x my decrepit ass. If you can really move on the keyboard? Touch the mouse? I’ll grab a coffee while I’m at it. Edit: It turns out that “fast emacs” doesn’t turn up a video of a real pro easily on Google. You can see a code God like Russ Cox being slow and clumsy as fuck if you want: https://youtu.be/dP1xVpMPn8M https://youtu.be/dP1xVpMPn8M. It’s a good thing thing he gets everything right on the first try (not sarcasm, Cox is an alien life form optimized for doing the impossible) because if he didn’t he’d finish pound-defining everything by about next March.
at_a_remove 4y ago
Programming existed before git. Programming will exist after git.
- benreesman 4y ago
  Maybe? Technically we don’t know anything about a free software world without Linus in charge other than TMI about Stallman right?
hbrn 4y ago
What might look like a most successful set of design decisions for you, can be viewed as a set of unfavorable tradeoffs by somebody else. To squash or not to squash is a never ending debate precisely because of that. There isn't a right way to do it, each approach has a set of tradeoffs. Maybe they are reinventing the wheel, but at their scale it's a tiny decision that doesn't mean that much. If they find out they are wrong, they can choose to migrate to Git instantly.
Cyberdog 4y ago
Assuming by "the most successful set of design decisions about document management in the history of documents or management" you meant Git, I see what Fossil does as an iteration no those ideas, not so much telling them to "get fucked." Recognizing that things like issue queues are commonly used together with version control repos and then integrating the latter more tightly to the former is a step forward rather than a complete refutation.
MichaelCollins 4y ago
They aren't burning any "goodwill" by choosing to use something different or odd. If you feel goodwill being burnt, I think you're taking their choice in VCS too personally. SQLite doesn't solicit contributions from programmers outside their organization, so it's really no skin off your back.

HelloNurse 4y ago

Do you know SQLite is a few years older than Git?

benreesman 4y ago
Indeed. I started paying serious attention to SQL in 1994 once I had read Stroustrup so many times I could recite it aloud, when did you get into databases? Edit: I’d like to apologize for mouthing off like that. I’ve earned some amount of cranky old-timer cred, but not enough to just be a dick, which that was.

moeris 4y ago

> three-button-mouse heavy sam/acme Acme is great. I haven't been able to find another editor that integrates as tightly with the operating system. The closest I've gotten is Kakoune. And I wish mouse chording were a thing more generally. If we're going to use mice, we should optimize their utility.

benreesman 4y ago
https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/how-fast-fast-some-pro-gamers-make-10-moves-second-8c11422946 https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/how-fast-fast-some-pro-gam... claims that effective APM can hit 600, that sounds high to me but not by a lot. 10hz on the keyboard is probably not a realistic sustained rate for a hardcore vi/emacs user. I easily hit 4hz at the end of a 20 hour coding bender, and I’m old: the hot shit kids on modafinil must be doing 1.5x my decrepit ass. If you can really move on the keyboard? Touch the mouse? I’ll grab a coffee while I’m at it. Edit: It turns out that “fast emacs” doesn’t turn up a video of a real pro easily on Google. You can see a code God like Russ Cox being slow and clumsy as fuck if you want: https://youtu.be/dP1xVpMPn8M https://youtu.be/dP1xVpMPn8M. It’s a good thing thing he gets everything right on the first try (not sarcasm, Cox is an alien life form optimized for doing the impossible) because if he didn’t he’d finish pound-defining everything by about next March.

at_a_remove 4y ago

Programming existed before git. Programming will exist after git.

benreesman 4y ago
Maybe? Technically we don’t know anything about a free software world without Linus in charge other than TMI about Stallman right?

hbrn 4y ago

What might look like a most successful set of design decisions for you, can be viewed as a set of unfavorable tradeoffs by somebody else. To squash or not to squash is a never ending debate precisely because of that. There isn't a right way to do it, each approach has a set of tradeoffs. Maybe they are reinventing the wheel, but at their scale it's a tiny decision that doesn't mean that much. If they find out they are wrong, they can choose to migrate to Git instantly.

Cyberdog 4y ago

Assuming by "the most successful set of design decisions about document management in the history of documents or management" you meant Git, I see what Fossil does as an iteration no those ideas, not so much telling them to "get fucked." Recognizing that things like issue queues are commonly used together with version control repos and then integrating the latter more tightly to the former is a step forward rather than a complete refutation.

MichaelCollins 4y ago

They aren't burning any "goodwill" by choosing to use something different or odd. If you feel goodwill being burnt, I think you're taking their choice in VCS too personally. SQLite doesn't solicit contributions from programmers outside their organization, so it's really no skin off your back.