6 ms·

Jail was never meant for non violent offenders…. This isn’t even an offense. It’s none of the government’s business.

the_mitsuhiko 4y ago
In Switzerland? Doubtful. Switzerland has a ton of non violet jail sentences for a long, long time.
KuzMenachem 4y ago
Are you Swiss? Switzerland punishes many non-violent offenders with a jail sentence already. It seems to me like Swiss jail is meant for what the Swiss people decide it’s for.
- righttoolforjob 4y ago
  Internal matters? The age-old cry of the oppressor?
  - KuzMenachem 4y ago
    Fair enough - I’ve appended my comment
lbriner 4y ago
How is it not the Government's business to manage supply to the entire country and step-in where people are not looking out for each other. That said, I think the idea is mostly unworkable, it would be much better to look at differences in energy bills for similar size homes and send round advisors to mee the home owners and discuss how they might improve energy efficiency.
ajross 4y ago
Management of critical infrastructure is absolutely the government's business. It seems like (having read the article and not the headline) this is a law already on the books for dealing with violators of declared rationing programs, there's nothing about gas specifically. The penalty is 30EUR/day, "with jail time for repeat violators". That doesn't sound so weird to me. The whole point of rationing (which isn't happening yet[1]) is that efficient market allocation in severe shortages isn't capable of meeting society's needs, and that the government needs to step in to do the allocation instead. Now, knowing HN, there are going to be a lot of people here who reject this premise a priori. But nonetheless that is the premise behind the law, and given that having some sort of enforcement mechanism is necessary, just like it is for all laws. [1] And probably won't. The idea of shutting off gas is a pretty obvious bluff by Russia. They need that cash at least as much as the Europeans need the gas.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  A key part of keeping the threat a bluff is being prepared to deal with it. Shutting off the taps has limited long term utility if Europeans reduce demand for Russian gas by introducing substitutes or otherwise reducing demand!
- origin_path 4y ago
  Gas shutoffs have been happening because of European sanctions on their equipment, not because they actually want to shut it off, so whether they're "bluffing" or not is irrelevant. Many turbines are now out of action and Siemens either won't return them (UK sanctions) or returned one but refused to give any assurances they wouldn't shut it down remotely (!). Rationing gas like this is foolish in all cases. That's what markets are for. They have no way to enforce this and it can only cause immense social strife for near zero payback. You'd think they'd have learned from the attempt to break up families at Christmas to punish the unvaccinated, but no. The current Federal Council really is trash.

In Switzerland? Doubtful. Switzerland has a ton of non violet jail sentences for a long, long time.

Are you Swiss? Switzerland punishes many non-violent offenders with a jail sentence already. It seems to me like Swiss jail is meant for what the Swiss people decide it’s for.

righttoolforjob 4y ago
Internal matters? The age-old cry of the oppressor?
- KuzMenachem 4y ago
  Fair enough - I’ve appended my comment

lbriner 4y ago

How is it not the Government's business to manage supply to the entire country and step-in where people are not looking out for each other. That said, I think the idea is mostly unworkable, it would be much better to look at differences in energy bills for similar size homes and send round advisors to mee the home owners and discuss how they might improve energy efficiency.

ajross 4y ago

Management of critical infrastructure is absolutely the government's business. It seems like (having read the article and not the headline) this is a law already on the books for dealing with violators of declared rationing programs, there's nothing about gas specifically. The penalty is 30EUR/day, "with jail time for repeat violators". That doesn't sound so weird to me. The whole point of rationing (which isn't happening yet[1]) is that efficient market allocation in severe shortages isn't capable of meeting society's needs, and that the government needs to step in to do the allocation instead. Now, knowing HN, there are going to be a lot of people here who reject this premise a priori. But nonetheless that is the premise behind the law, and given that having some sort of enforcement mechanism is necessary, just like it is for all laws. [1] And probably won't. The idea of shutting off gas is a pretty obvious bluff by Russia. They need that cash at least as much as the Europeans need the gas.

Spooky23 4y ago
A key part of keeping the threat a bluff is being prepared to deal with it. Shutting off the taps has limited long term utility if Europeans reduce demand for Russian gas by introducing substitutes or otherwise reducing demand!
origin_path 4y ago
Gas shutoffs have been happening because of European sanctions on their equipment, not because they actually want to shut it off, so whether they're "bluffing" or not is irrelevant. Many turbines are now out of action and Siemens either won't return them (UK sanctions) or returned one but refused to give any assurances they wouldn't shut it down remotely (!). Rationing gas like this is foolish in all cases. That's what markets are for. They have no way to enforce this and it can only cause immense social strife for near zero payback. You'd think they'd have learned from the attempt to break up families at Christmas to punish the unvaccinated, but no. The current Federal Council really is trash.