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> Therefore, Ukraine's fate is sealed and the outcome is dictated by Russia's desires. That is very far from the truth - please check the recent events. It is

by hkpack 4y ago

> Therefore, Ukraine's fate is sealed and the outcome is dictated by Russia's desires. That is very far from the truth - please check the recent events. It is possible to fight against Russia, and it is in the best interest of the Europe and the collective west to do so. For multiple decades Russia was using energy as a way to corrupt EU. It was never only about Ukraine - occupation of Ukraine was always the first step. Baltic countries and Poland understand that very well, please listen to them. If Ukraine falls, Russia will invade Europe in a decade with Ukrainian military on its side. Europe need to remove its dependence on the Russian gas completely for its own safety. Inflation is a very small price to pay compared to the alternative.

Isinlor 4y ago
As a Pole I fully agree with you. Also with regard to the nuclear threat. Russia can threaten with nuclear holocaust at any time for whatever reason. They could say tomorrow: give up all land that belonged at some point to Russian Empire, Soviet Union, Warsaw Pact or we will start nuclear holocaust. They could even demand Alaska. Then what? We give in? No!
lazyjones 4y ago
> That is very far from the truth - please check the recent events You are forgetting or ignoring Russia's bigger guns. If Russia wanted to use NATO methods, it would be over in one day with hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. > For multiple decades Russia was using energy as a way to corrupt EU. "Interesting" narrative. > If Ukraine falls, Russia will invade Europe in a decade with Ukrainian military on its side. If Russia wanted to attack NATO and start WW3, it would already have done so. Why would it need to attack Ukraine first? Please try to think logically. > Europe need to remove its dependence on the Russian gas completely for its own safety. The same as above applies. If Russia wanted to conquer Europe as you seem to believe, independence from Russia's gas isn't going to help in any way to prevent that.
- hkpack 4y ago
  > You are forgetting or ignoring Russia's bigger guns. Just curious - like what?
  - lazyjones 4y ago
    Tactical nuclear weapons for example. https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/02/russia-has-a-massive-stockpile-of-tactical-nuclear-weapons/ https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/02/russia-has-a-massive-sto...
    - type0 4y ago
      Only it's difficult to actually use them without getting getting preventative strike yourself. NATO had tactical nukes as well, they only declared it after ruZZkies threatened to use it.
- type0 4y ago
  > If Russia wanted to use NATO methods, it would be over in one day with hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. What methods?
  - aiProgMach 4y ago
    Carpet bombing? Burning cities with napalm? Using depleted uranium? Burning children with Phosphorus? Planting mines for civilians? Supporting terrorist organizations that bombs people, or even directly bombing people directly? Starving thousands of hundreds of people and openly admitting doing that... Do you need more?

by hkpack 4y ago

Isinlor 4y ago

As a Pole I fully agree with you. Also with regard to the nuclear threat. Russia can threaten with nuclear holocaust at any time for whatever reason. They could say tomorrow: give up all land that belonged at some point to Russian Empire, Soviet Union, Warsaw Pact or we will start nuclear holocaust. They could even demand Alaska. Then what? We give in? No!

lazyjones 4y ago

> That is very far from the truth - please check the recent events You are forgetting or ignoring Russia's bigger guns. If Russia wanted to use NATO methods, it would be over in one day with hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. > For multiple decades Russia was using energy as a way to corrupt EU. "Interesting" narrative. > If Ukraine falls, Russia will invade Europe in a decade with Ukrainian military on its side. If Russia wanted to attack NATO and start WW3, it would already have done so. Why would it need to attack Ukraine first? Please try to think logically. > Europe need to remove its dependence on the Russian gas completely for its own safety. The same as above applies. If Russia wanted to conquer Europe as you seem to believe, independence from Russia's gas isn't going to help in any way to prevent that.

hkpack 4y ago
> You are forgetting or ignoring Russia's bigger guns. Just curious - like what?
- lazyjones 4y ago
  Tactical nuclear weapons for example. https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/02/russia-has-a-massive-stockpile-of-tactical-nuclear-weapons/ https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/02/russia-has-a-massive-sto...
  - type0 4y ago
    Only it's difficult to actually use them without getting getting preventative strike yourself. NATO had tactical nukes as well, they only declared it after ruZZkies threatened to use it.
type0 4y ago
> If Russia wanted to use NATO methods, it would be over in one day with hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties. What methods?
- aiProgMach 4y ago
  Carpet bombing? Burning cities with napalm? Using depleted uranium? Burning children with Phosphorus? Planting mines for civilians? Supporting terrorist organizations that bombs people, or even directly bombing people directly? Starving thousands of hundreds of people and openly admitting doing that... Do you need more?