4 ms·

The utter stupidity of thinking that (hey, this is your line, I'm just repeating it) NATO could put soldiers into Ukraine without starting a thermonuclear globa

The utter stupidity of thinking that (hey, this is your line, I'm just repeating it) NATO could put soldiers into Ukraine without starting a thermonuclear global holocaust in the form of WW3. I would go so far as to suggest that NATO has done 110% of what they can against Russia. Unlimited money for Ukraine, unlimited supplies for Ukraine, unlimited training for Ukraine, and even now basically unlimited intelligence! Think of the HIMARS! The Karkhiv offensive is Ukraine's 'first truly western' attack, complete with a southern feint, built entirely on western intelligence and strategy. And as a result, Ukraine is routing the Russian military who are in drop-everything-and-run mode in half of Ukraine. Is that not a success?? Europe/US westernized/NATOized the Ukrainian military in about 6 months flat and spared no expense in the process. Short of starting a nuclear world war 3, it's hard to imagine doing more.

Bayart 4y ago
The Ukrainian army has been brought up to NATO standards over the last 8 years. The training programs for officers and NCOs were quite successful.
451mov 4y ago
The wests "support" amounts to indebting Ukraine for the next 100 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend...
- criley2 4y ago
  Lol I am going to describe your reply as Russian propaganda for a number of reasons: 1) You "" quoted "support" as a way to diminish it, even though the Western support has clearly been absolutely instrumental in every possible way to the Ukrainian resistance. To deny this is either ignorance or malfeasance. Without western "support" Kyiv would have fallen in the first weeks. Instead, Ukrainians are fully routing the Russians who are in mass retreat. Some "support"!! 2) American lend-lease is a way to reduce domestic red tape and expedite transfers of military equipment. It's a formality and the US is not some creditor hounding nations. In fact, some nations never repaid the WW2 debts at all and no one cares https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#Repayment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#Repayment Your characterization of it is... bizarre and weird... unless you're pushing agitprop. If the Ukrainian people make some token tiny payment 50 years from now as a commemoration of this beautiful new brotherhood, it will be a special moment. But if it never comes, no one will care. 3) American lend-lease is SEPARATE from the monetary assistance -- the $15 billion dollars the US has given to Ukraine since the war began is not a lend-lease debt. And American lend-lease obviously doesn't cover things like the MASSIVE Polish contributions. To lump all of Western "support" into "lend-lease", when in reality it's not, again is either ignorance or malfeasance.
  - 451mov 4y ago
    Lol a race to the bottom as usual with someone who is hooked on western main stream media e.g: "Russians are in mass retreat" - this is comical. People like you see no nuance, I am against the war in the first instance. A more realistic understanding of geopolitics could and should have avoided this war but that day has long since passed. Yes i am diminishing the "support" provided by the west, as op mentioned if the west was so determined to stand with Ukraine then they should be putting soldiers on the ground. People like you couldn't careless, your "support" will just add fuel to the fire of an already burning Ukraine. I'll go further, the wests support is actually tantamount to warmongering (but thats par for the course).
    - criley2 4y ago
      > Lol a race to the bottom as usual with someone who is hooked on western main stream media e.g: "Russians are in mass retreat" - this is comical Lol the Kremlin yesterday posted their daily maps which showed a full retreat from the NE region to Russian borders, and social media is full of videos in NE Ukraine of abandoned gear, tanks, artillery, stockpiles, etc. The Kremlin amusingly calls it a "a planned withdrawal" but even Russian commentators are struggling with the absurdity of the latest spin, because they have front-lines Russian bloggers attached who are filming the abandonment of heavy equipment, supplies and even small arms. How funny that you accuse me of western-MSM when even domestic Russian media has shown it. Bless your sweet little heart, I know, it's really hard to maintain the Russian propaganda in places where the Kremlin can't murder people who disagree. > I'll go further, the wests support is actually tantamount to warmongering (but thats par for the course). And there it is. The 1984 Doublespeak moment that the Russian propaganda thrives on. Defense is Warmongering. Helping is hurting. How dare those dastardly westerners allow Ukraine to freely associate with them! The Ukranian people are the property of Russia and should be thrilled to be "de-nazified"! The proper ethical decision is to simply give in during Russia's "de-nazification" genocide campaign! I'll go further: your defense of the horrific Russian genocide campaign by attempting to blame the West for it is an act of complete moral cowardice and a textbook example of how propaganda leads people to support genocide.
      - 4y ago
Isinlor 4y ago
NATO intervention would not trigger WW3. Nobody is interested in invading Ukraine, besides Russia. Also, Russia is capable to start a thermonuclear global holocaust at any point. They could literally say tomorrow - either you give us Warsaw Pact / Russian Empire territories or we start a thermonuclear global holocaust. What then? But Ukrainians are not asking for military intervention. They are asking for stuff like ATACMS.

Bayart 4y ago

The Ukrainian army has been brought up to NATO standards over the last 8 years. The training programs for officers and NCOs were quite successful.

451mov 4y ago

The wests "support" amounts to indebting Ukraine for the next 100 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend...

criley2 4y ago
Lol I am going to describe your reply as Russian propaganda for a number of reasons: 1) You "" quoted "support" as a way to diminish it, even though the Western support has clearly been absolutely instrumental in every possible way to the Ukrainian resistance. To deny this is either ignorance or malfeasance. Without western "support" Kyiv would have fallen in the first weeks. Instead, Ukrainians are fully routing the Russians who are in mass retreat. Some "support"!! 2) American lend-lease is a way to reduce domestic red tape and expedite transfers of military equipment. It's a formality and the US is not some creditor hounding nations. In fact, some nations never repaid the WW2 debts at all and no one cares https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#Repayment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#Repayment Your characterization of it is... bizarre and weird... unless you're pushing agitprop. If the Ukrainian people make some token tiny payment 50 years from now as a commemoration of this beautiful new brotherhood, it will be a special moment. But if it never comes, no one will care. 3) American lend-lease is SEPARATE from the monetary assistance -- the $15 billion dollars the US has given to Ukraine since the war began is not a lend-lease debt. And American lend-lease obviously doesn't cover things like the MASSIVE Polish contributions. To lump all of Western "support" into "lend-lease", when in reality it's not, again is either ignorance or malfeasance.
- 451mov 4y ago
  Lol a race to the bottom as usual with someone who is hooked on western main stream media e.g: "Russians are in mass retreat" - this is comical. People like you see no nuance, I am against the war in the first instance. A more realistic understanding of geopolitics could and should have avoided this war but that day has long since passed. Yes i am diminishing the "support" provided by the west, as op mentioned if the west was so determined to stand with Ukraine then they should be putting soldiers on the ground. People like you couldn't careless, your "support" will just add fuel to the fire of an already burning Ukraine. I'll go further, the wests support is actually tantamount to warmongering (but thats par for the course).
  - criley2 4y ago
    > Lol a race to the bottom as usual with someone who is hooked on western main stream media e.g: "Russians are in mass retreat" - this is comical Lol the Kremlin yesterday posted their daily maps which showed a full retreat from the NE region to Russian borders, and social media is full of videos in NE Ukraine of abandoned gear, tanks, artillery, stockpiles, etc. The Kremlin amusingly calls it a "a planned withdrawal" but even Russian commentators are struggling with the absurdity of the latest spin, because they have front-lines Russian bloggers attached who are filming the abandonment of heavy equipment, supplies and even small arms. How funny that you accuse me of western-MSM when even domestic Russian media has shown it. Bless your sweet little heart, I know, it's really hard to maintain the Russian propaganda in places where the Kremlin can't murder people who disagree. > I'll go further, the wests support is actually tantamount to warmongering (but thats par for the course). And there it is. The 1984 Doublespeak moment that the Russian propaganda thrives on. Defense is Warmongering. Helping is hurting. How dare those dastardly westerners allow Ukraine to freely associate with them! The Ukranian people are the property of Russia and should be thrilled to be "de-nazified"! The proper ethical decision is to simply give in during Russia's "de-nazification" genocide campaign! I'll go further: your defense of the horrific Russian genocide campaign by attempting to blame the West for it is an act of complete moral cowardice and a textbook example of how propaganda leads people to support genocide.
    - 4y ago

Isinlor 4y ago

NATO intervention would not trigger WW3. Nobody is interested in invading Ukraine, besides Russia. Also, Russia is capable to start a thermonuclear global holocaust at any point. They could literally say tomorrow - either you give us Warsaw Pact / Russian Empire territories or we start a thermonuclear global holocaust. What then? But Ukrainians are not asking for military intervention. They are asking for stuff like ATACMS.