5 ms·

So you are calling chess.com liars, or did you not read the article?

by ratg13 4y ago

Ekaros 4y ago
Unless they have a proof to present I think there is reasonable case to sue them here.
- viscanti 4y ago
  They have unfairly infringed his constitutional right to continue to play games on chess.com after he admitted to cheating on there in the past.
  - Bud 4y ago
    His "constitutional right"? This is a joke, right? Please say yes. Please tell me it doesn't have to be explained that there's no "constitutional right" to use a chess website.
  - eteos 4y ago
    There is no such thing as a constitutional right to play on chess.com
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      That's the joke.
jstanley 4y ago
It's not obvious to me that chess.com would have any more insight into whether or not Hans Niemann cheated OTB than anyone else would.
- ratg13 4y ago
  No, but they reviewed his history after the accusations and found him to be lying and misrepresenting himself. So, if we take chess.com at their word and he is lying, we have a person who is a "former" cheater, who is currently actively lying about the scope of their cheating. It's not conclusive by any means, but this is a far cry from "nothing to see here"
  - addicted 4y ago
    Chess.com must be really struggling for money if they have to wait for a non accusation of OTB cheating to run their anti-cheating algorithms on a player’s games. Which they obviously aren’t. Which means that they have found nothing new in the “review”. The more obvious answer is that Magnus is pissed, and as a part owner of chess.com and biggest draw in tennis, chess.com wants his continued participation and so is kicking Hans out. They may have justification for it, but it was clearly not enough of a justification to act on before Magnus decided to get all pissy on losing.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  They analyse games for unusual moves. See also https://en.chessbase.com/post/cheating-controversy-at-prochessleague https://en.chessbase.com/post/cheating-controversy-at-proche...
- Steko 4y ago
  Whether Hans cheated OtB is not really the main issue although most commenters get hung up on it. Occam’s Razor suggests we should strongly believe he didn’t cheat OTB. The bigger issue is that known cheaters create a cloud of suspicion that puts their opponents at a huge disadvantage. Magnus has spoken about this before - if you think someone might be cheating you can’t concentrate on chess. This suspicion can be allayed with extra security but that extra security was only deployed after Magnus left.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    > Whether Hans cheated OtB is not really the main issue although most commenters get hung up on it. It’s not only the main issue. It’s pretty much the sole issue. The only other one I can see is how harshly Magnus should be sanctioned by FIDE for leaving a tournament without a valid reason and his little stint on Twitter. > The bigger issue is that known cheaters create a cloud of suspicion that puts their opponents at a huge disadvantage. […] This suspicion can be allayed with extra security but that extra security was only deployed after Magnus left. Magnus knew perfectly well how the game would be played and security was more than adequate before this game. Tournaments takes preventing cheating very seriously and the Sinquefield Cup is no exception.
    - faeriechangling 4y ago
      >security more than adequate There are tons of viable methods for cheating. I’ve heard the method of taking a break on a balcony and having a conspirator flash singles at you with car headlights. Or a cheating device in your shoes, or hidden in even more private places. The point being is that if Hans really wanted to cheat OTB the security measures to stop him are rather inadequate. More theatre than anything. Do I think he cheated OTB? No but he could have. There will always be that raised suspicion, that extra degree of doubt given Han’s repututation.
      - Ekaros 4y ago
        Maybe then we should increase security level in these events. Demand all the players to be naked, in locked rooms. With full body cavity search. Just to exclude any possibility. Do not them leave until game is over. Bucket can be provided if needed...
- honksillet 4y ago
  Cheating is a huge issue in online chess. Sites like chess.com have teams that hunt it. That being said, chess.com should probably release the evidence.
- faeriechangling 4y ago
  They are intentionally opaque but I believe chesscom is using some browser tracking like checking if you’re tabbing out as a form of rudimentary anti cheat, and they can detect things like ban evasion and players using an alt. For the most part they’re working off public information though.
  - jstanley 4y ago
    But that says nothing about whether he cheated at the Sinquefield Cup.
ejb999 4y ago
I read the article, and this is what I found: >>"So far, there has not been any concrete evidence that points to Niemann cheating." So question is, did you read the article?
- jackmott 4y ago
faeriechangling 4y ago
I believe most people understand that chess.com are working off statistics and best faith efforts but can be mistaken. Moreover chess.com saying they cheated on their website is a wholly separate issue than if Hans cheated OTB. There’s plenty of room to believe that chess.com is being sincere but that Hans may be innocent of both recent allegations, especially the OTB cheating allegation.

So you are calling chess.com liars, or did you not read the article?

by ratg13 4y ago

So you are calling chess.com liars, or did you not read the article?

Ekaros 4y ago

Unless they have a proof to present I think there is reasonable case to sue them here.

viscanti 4y ago
They have unfairly infringed his constitutional right to continue to play games on chess.com after he admitted to cheating on there in the past.
- Bud 4y ago
  His "constitutional right"? This is a joke, right? Please say yes. Please tell me it doesn't have to be explained that there's no "constitutional right" to use a chess website.
- eteos 4y ago
  There is no such thing as a constitutional right to play on chess.com
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    That's the joke.

jstanley 4y ago

It's not obvious to me that chess.com would have any more insight into whether or not Hans Niemann cheated OTB than anyone else would.

ratg13 4y ago
No, but they reviewed his history after the accusations and found him to be lying and misrepresenting himself. So, if we take chess.com at their word and he is lying, we have a person who is a "former" cheater, who is currently actively lying about the scope of their cheating. It's not conclusive by any means, but this is a far cry from "nothing to see here"
- addicted 4y ago
  Chess.com must be really struggling for money if they have to wait for a non accusation of OTB cheating to run their anti-cheating algorithms on a player’s games. Which they obviously aren’t. Which means that they have found nothing new in the “review”. The more obvious answer is that Magnus is pissed, and as a part owner of chess.com and biggest draw in tennis, chess.com wants his continued participation and so is kicking Hans out. They may have justification for it, but it was clearly not enough of a justification to act on before Magnus decided to get all pissy on losing.
robertlagrant 4y ago
They analyse games for unusual moves. See also https://en.chessbase.com/post/cheating-controversy-at-prochessleague https://en.chessbase.com/post/cheating-controversy-at-proche...
Steko 4y ago
Whether Hans cheated OtB is not really the main issue although most commenters get hung up on it. Occam’s Razor suggests we should strongly believe he didn’t cheat OTB. The bigger issue is that known cheaters create a cloud of suspicion that puts their opponents at a huge disadvantage. Magnus has spoken about this before - if you think someone might be cheating you can’t concentrate on chess. This suspicion can be allayed with extra security but that extra security was only deployed after Magnus left.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  > Whether Hans cheated OtB is not really the main issue although most commenters get hung up on it. It’s not only the main issue. It’s pretty much the sole issue. The only other one I can see is how harshly Magnus should be sanctioned by FIDE for leaving a tournament without a valid reason and his little stint on Twitter. > The bigger issue is that known cheaters create a cloud of suspicion that puts their opponents at a huge disadvantage. […] This suspicion can be allayed with extra security but that extra security was only deployed after Magnus left. Magnus knew perfectly well how the game would be played and security was more than adequate before this game. Tournaments takes preventing cheating very seriously and the Sinquefield Cup is no exception.
  - faeriechangling 4y ago
    >security more than adequate There are tons of viable methods for cheating. I’ve heard the method of taking a break on a balcony and having a conspirator flash singles at you with car headlights. Or a cheating device in your shoes, or hidden in even more private places. The point being is that if Hans really wanted to cheat OTB the security measures to stop him are rather inadequate. More theatre than anything. Do I think he cheated OTB? No but he could have. There will always be that raised suspicion, that extra degree of doubt given Han’s repututation.
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      Maybe then we should increase security level in these events. Demand all the players to be naked, in locked rooms. With full body cavity search. Just to exclude any possibility. Do not them leave until game is over. Bucket can be provided if needed...
honksillet 4y ago
Cheating is a huge issue in online chess. Sites like chess.com have teams that hunt it. That being said, chess.com should probably release the evidence.
faeriechangling 4y ago
They are intentionally opaque but I believe chesscom is using some browser tracking like checking if you’re tabbing out as a form of rudimentary anti cheat, and they can detect things like ban evasion and players using an alt. For the most part they’re working off public information though.
- jstanley 4y ago
  But that says nothing about whether he cheated at the Sinquefield Cup.

ejb999 4y ago

I read the article, and this is what I found: >>"So far, there has not been any concrete evidence that points to Niemann cheating." So question is, did you read the article?

jackmott 4y ago

faeriechangling 4y ago

I believe most people understand that chess.com are working off statistics and best faith efforts but can be mistaken. Moreover chess.com saying they cheated on their website is a wholly separate issue than if Hans cheated OTB. There’s plenty of room to believe that chess.com is being sincere but that Hans may be innocent of both recent allegations, especially the OTB cheating allegation.