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Because that’s where all the money is. Seriously look at global GDP, maybe American citizens aren’t the wealthiest but the country and the businesses that run

Because that’s where all the money is. Seriously look at global GDP, maybe American citizens aren’t the wealthiest but the country and the businesses that run it sure as shit is.

gigatexal 4y ago
Haha pay is higher in the US because, sure, it's the world's largest economy. Though there are more millionares being minted in China than in the US every year. Nevertheless I'd sure as shit not want to build my business in China. I used to think this was because of relatively higher taxes in the EU than in the US but at the top end the highest wage earners are taxed rather heavily. A 500k salary is not 500k takehome. At least for me, I find the EU (Germany in particular), is hurting for talent enough that my mediocre skills (working on skilling up) are in demand and I'm relatively well paid >80k eur/yr.
- abofh 4y ago
  So, I'll be honest, taxes in the EU are (at the basic levels) near what they are in the US - top-line last-dollar percentage wise anyhow. But in the US there's a massive cottage industry in creating and managing deductions. I'm currently abroad, so while I'm subject to US taxes, the FEIE allows the first 112k to be deducted from income tax (not SS, so not everything but the bulk of it), and while I still expect to touch the 35% tax bracket on my last dollar earned this year, when you factor in the plethora of deductions, my effective tax rate is currently around 10%, and by year end will likely creep up to 17%. I've lived in a few EU countries over the years, generally under digital nomad programs that exempt from local taxes - but it's still helpful by way of comparison, that right now, if I were to pay at the same rate in my current country, I'd be much closer to 30% than 20%. Moreover, those earning substantially more than I am are largely not doing it as W2 (employees) or 1099 (contractors), but as investors earning capital gains - which themselves are taxed at a maximum of 20%. You can add to the US burden state taxes, but some states don't tax income at all (Texas), or they do their taxation based off the federal AGI, so all of your deductions kick in for the state stuff as well. If by some weird event I was earning 10x what I earn today, you can rest assured my tax rate in the US wouldn't go up from here, but instead it would be restructured into deferred capital gains (stock options), corporate ownership, investment in tax deferred or tax exempt accounts and so forth - because at the point where we're haggling over that much money, it's worth everyone's time to optimize even a 1% difference - by paying someone to do exactly that. So yes, a 500k salary isn't 500k take home, but without doing anything different than what I'm doing today, it'd be pretty close to a 400k take-home under US tax law.
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    Which digital nomad programs have used? Any that you currently recommend?
    - abofh 4y ago
      I'm a big fan of Croatia myself, but their program is one year, not renewable without a break (and starting next year, a full Schengen break), but it'll depend a lot on the lifestyle you want. I want cheap, beaches and quiet at least outside of the tourist season. I've heard good things about Portugals, but no direct experience. Montenegro has announced a two year one that's renewable once that I may give a trial when my current Croatia one runs out, but it's brand new and the government websites are currently under a bit of a DoS so getting details is harder. Germany could be good if you like it there, I think Italy just announced one, and if you're more into the Nordic scene, I think Norway has one. But I'm primarily in the EU because my partner is here, you can find them in a number of other countries, depending on the lifestyle and culture you want to spend time in. Not all of them are tax free, but most of them are. Do some googling, there's always an expat services organization that will offer overpriced consulting (but you may still want to use them, it can be frustrating if you don't speak the local languages). Also ask yourself if you want to find a new home, some nomad years don't count towards permanent residency requirements, so you may be delaying things while you do it. For me that's fine, for you maybe not. If you've got the liquidity it's usually worth going for a couple weeks before you make any final decisions to scope out the local territory and see if you can operate comfortably, but I'd encourage anyone thinking about it to look into it, you may find a lifestyle you really like better than home, wherever that is.
  - gigatexal 4y ago
    I’m an expat here too and I pay a CPA to do my taxes. (1 rental means a biz return and all the deductions… meh) if you can take home 400k from 500k in gross then you’re doing amazingly well.
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      This sounds too good to be true to me (as a former tax lawyer). If you're being paid 500k in salary I can't think of how you take home this much. Maybe you put a ton into tax-deferred accounts, but that's not the same as netting 80% as take-home. It's kicking the can down the road (to a time when tax rates may be even higher).
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >I find the EU (Germany in particular), is hurting for talent enough that my mediocre skills (working on skilling up) are in demand and I'm relatively well paid >80k eur/yr Can I ask where in Germany?
  - gigatexal 4y ago
    Berlin
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- badpun 4y ago
  Mediocre skills pay $150k usd in the US now though.
  - gigatexal 4y ago
    I could never pass the ridiculous white board challenges. Didn’t have any of that drama here. A take home and a relaxed discussion about it after the fact and I got the role.
    - badpun 4y ago
      I live in Europe, but got a couple of remote US jobs over the years. Didn't get a single whiteboarding exercise in them. At most, there were live coding exercises, but one where they were interested in how well I know the language/frameworks, what is my thinking process, how do I structure the code, how do I handle errors and unexpected states etc. - so, in essence, the things relevant to daily coding tasks, not some algorithmic trivia.
      - gigatexal 4y ago
        That’s how it should be. That’s how I interview candidates now, too: applicable situations not highly conceptual intellectual navel gazing.
cm2012 4y ago
Even West Virginia has a higher GDP per Capita than France. The US is just a really rich country (that has a very inefficient medical system)

Because that’s where all the money is. Seriously look at global GDP, maybe American citizens aren’t the wealthiest but the country and the businesses that run it sure as shit is.

gigatexal 4y ago

Haha pay is higher in the US because, sure, it's the world's largest economy. Though there are more millionares being minted in China than in the US every year. Nevertheless I'd sure as shit not want to build my business in China. I used to think this was because of relatively higher taxes in the EU than in the US but at the top end the highest wage earners are taxed rather heavily. A 500k salary is not 500k takehome. At least for me, I find the EU (Germany in particular), is hurting for talent enough that my mediocre skills (working on skilling up) are in demand and I'm relatively well paid >80k eur/yr.

abofh 4y ago
So, I'll be honest, taxes in the EU are (at the basic levels) near what they are in the US - top-line last-dollar percentage wise anyhow. But in the US there's a massive cottage industry in creating and managing deductions. I'm currently abroad, so while I'm subject to US taxes, the FEIE allows the first 112k to be deducted from income tax (not SS, so not everything but the bulk of it), and while I still expect to touch the 35% tax bracket on my last dollar earned this year, when you factor in the plethora of deductions, my effective tax rate is currently around 10%, and by year end will likely creep up to 17%. I've lived in a few EU countries over the years, generally under digital nomad programs that exempt from local taxes - but it's still helpful by way of comparison, that right now, if I were to pay at the same rate in my current country, I'd be much closer to 30% than 20%. Moreover, those earning substantially more than I am are largely not doing it as W2 (employees) or 1099 (contractors), but as investors earning capital gains - which themselves are taxed at a maximum of 20%. You can add to the US burden state taxes, but some states don't tax income at all (Texas), or they do their taxation based off the federal AGI, so all of your deductions kick in for the state stuff as well. If by some weird event I was earning 10x what I earn today, you can rest assured my tax rate in the US wouldn't go up from here, but instead it would be restructured into deferred capital gains (stock options), corporate ownership, investment in tax deferred or tax exempt accounts and so forth - because at the point where we're haggling over that much money, it's worth everyone's time to optimize even a 1% difference - by paying someone to do exactly that. So yes, a 500k salary isn't 500k take home, but without doing anything different than what I'm doing today, it'd be pretty close to a 400k take-home under US tax law.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  Which digital nomad programs have used? Any that you currently recommend?
  - abofh 4y ago
    I'm a big fan of Croatia myself, but their program is one year, not renewable without a break (and starting next year, a full Schengen break), but it'll depend a lot on the lifestyle you want. I want cheap, beaches and quiet at least outside of the tourist season. I've heard good things about Portugals, but no direct experience. Montenegro has announced a two year one that's renewable once that I may give a trial when my current Croatia one runs out, but it's brand new and the government websites are currently under a bit of a DoS so getting details is harder. Germany could be good if you like it there, I think Italy just announced one, and if you're more into the Nordic scene, I think Norway has one. But I'm primarily in the EU because my partner is here, you can find them in a number of other countries, depending on the lifestyle and culture you want to spend time in. Not all of them are tax free, but most of them are. Do some googling, there's always an expat services organization that will offer overpriced consulting (but you may still want to use them, it can be frustrating if you don't speak the local languages). Also ask yourself if you want to find a new home, some nomad years don't count towards permanent residency requirements, so you may be delaying things while you do it. For me that's fine, for you maybe not. If you've got the liquidity it's usually worth going for a couple weeks before you make any final decisions to scope out the local territory and see if you can operate comfortably, but I'd encourage anyone thinking about it to look into it, you may find a lifestyle you really like better than home, wherever that is.
- gigatexal 4y ago
  I’m an expat here too and I pay a CPA to do my taxes. (1 rental means a biz return and all the deductions… meh) if you can take home 400k from 500k in gross then you’re doing amazingly well.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    This sounds too good to be true to me (as a former tax lawyer). If you're being paid 500k in salary I can't think of how you take home this much. Maybe you put a ton into tax-deferred accounts, but that's not the same as netting 80% as take-home. It's kicking the can down the road (to a time when tax rates may be even higher).
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>I find the EU (Germany in particular), is hurting for talent enough that my mediocre skills (working on skilling up) are in demand and I'm relatively well paid >80k eur/yr Can I ask where in Germany?
- gigatexal 4y ago
  Berlin
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
badpun 4y ago
Mediocre skills pay $150k usd in the US now though.
- gigatexal 4y ago
  I could never pass the ridiculous white board challenges. Didn’t have any of that drama here. A take home and a relaxed discussion about it after the fact and I got the role.
  - badpun 4y ago
    I live in Europe, but got a couple of remote US jobs over the years. Didn't get a single whiteboarding exercise in them. At most, there were live coding exercises, but one where they were interested in how well I know the language/frameworks, what is my thinking process, how do I structure the code, how do I handle errors and unexpected states etc. - so, in essence, the things relevant to daily coding tasks, not some algorithmic trivia.
    - gigatexal 4y ago
      That’s how it should be. That’s how I interview candidates now, too: applicable situations not highly conceptual intellectual navel gazing.

cm2012 4y ago

Even West Virginia has a higher GDP per Capita than France. The US is just a really rich country (that has a very inefficient medical system)