5 ms·

Woman arrested after protester holds anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh

10 points by Markoff 4y ago

Markoff 4y ago
A woman was arrested after a protester held an anti-monarchy sign “f*k imperialism, abolish monarchy” ahead of the accession proclamation of King Charles III in Edinburgh. Police Scotland said the arrest was made outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the Queen’s coffin is due to be held on Monday. Moments before the proclamation on Sunday afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross. Officers appeared behind her and took her away, prompting the crowd to applaud. One man shouted: “Let her go, it’s free speech,” while others yelled: “Have some respect.” A police spokesman said a 22-year-old woman was arrested “in connection with a breach of the peace”. It came after hecklers were heard booing during the event. During the first proclamation of Charles, the Lord Lyon King of Arms gave a speech before declaring “God save the King”, which the crowd repeated. One man was heard booing throughout the cheers. The national anthem was then sung but, afterwards, people could be heard calling for a republic. After Lord Lyon King led three cheers, saying “hip hip” to replies of “hooray”, booing was heard for a second time. Some mourners called the hecklers “disrespectful”, saying they should have avoided the proclamation if they believe in a republic. Helen Smith, 48, from Livingston, told the PA news agency: “I believe everyone does have a right to protest, but I thought it was the wrong place at the wrong time. “(It was) incredibly disrespectful to the event that we were just seeing.” Ms Smith, an engineer, she feels it dampened the event for the rest of the crowd. “We saw the police keeping an eye on things behind us, and we thought something was going to kick off, and it did,” she said. “We just felt disappointed because the eyes of the world are on us at the moment. “It’s a massive moment in history. We’ve had the death of the longest-serving monarch we’ve ever had, we’ve got the new King being proclaimed, and then we have the heckling at the back and the shouting.” Ann Hamilton, 48, said she thought the interruptions were “terrible”. Ms Hamilton, who travelled from Dumfries, told PA: “There’s tens of thousands of people here today to show their respect. “For them to be here, heckling through things, I think it was terrible. If they were so against it, they shouldn’t have come. “Once everyone was singing God Save The King with their full voices, it was drowning them out.” Donald Maclaren, 64, of Livingston, added: “It’s very disrespectful. There is a time and a place if you want to protest, but this isn’t it. “Somebody shouted, ‘Republic now’. Then, when they were doing the three cheers, somebody was booing.” Liz Maclaren, 67, also branded it “disrespectful”, saying: “The boos sounded like one person.”
- TotoHorner 4y ago
  > "I believe everyone does have a right to protest, but I thought it was the wrong place at the wrong time." Totally cool to protest, just as long as the cause is popular.
  - Markoff 4y ago
    Indeed, it's not everyone if you add BUT. There should be no but, period.
- Markoff 4y ago
  are there bots in HN or who downvotes quoted article to help people to read it without clicking to dismiss sign up screen?
ashwagary 4y ago
No freedom of speech in England.
- dave4420 4y ago
  Edinburgh is in Scotland.
- flave 4y ago
  Edinburgh is in Scotland and in the UK we have Freedom of Expression not Freedom of Speech. Before you ask, the difference is that you have the right to state your opinion but there are limits on the ways in which you can state them. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/9#:~:text=Changes%20to%20Legislation,-Revised%20legislation%20carried&text=1Everyone%20has%20the%20right,authority%20and%20regardless%20of%20frontiers https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part....
- lm28469 4y ago
  It doesn't exist anywhere. Even in the US you have libel and defamation laws, which are not compatible with free speech absolutism. You'll find hundreds of other things if you start digging too Americans talking about their free speech is the funniest thing ever
  - ashwagary 4y ago
    In America, you can hold an anti-anything sign in public and won't get arrested.
flave 4y ago
The Independent is not a trustworthy journalistic outlet so I'd recommend reading this link (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/11/republican-protesters-arrested-king-charles-proclamation-events https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/11/republican-p...) first. This type of stuff is very concerning but it's been around for a while. Section 5 of the Public Order Act is essentially a catch all to arrest (and typically take them to a police station and de-arrest them). It's fairly common during disorder and I've seen it personally. @TotoHorner above/below makes the joke "cool to protest provided it's something popular' but that is basically the case with Section 5. The wording is something like "likely to cause widespread offence or alarm" which means that the offence is defined in line with what the police or judges believe is the public mood. One example of this was that during COVID, a woman was murdered by an off duty police officer and there were protests in London during a lockdown. Many of the people at the protest were arrested (as had protested during anti-lockdown protest) but subsequently the police apologised and said they regretted what they did. There's no doubt they were implementing the law as written but they implemented it against a popular and sympathetic group - which didn't work out well.
Beltalowda 4y ago
Shouldn't people who wish to attend an event also have the freedom to do so without someone standing next to them shouting abuse? Especially the case where people were mourning The Queen it seems rather misguided and insensitive. There are a million-and-one ways to protest the monarchy; more than ever before. Seems narcissistic and petty to go and ruin other people's days. That's not "protesting", that's just being a twat. For what it's worth, I'm not in favour of the monarchy, but we can be against the monarchy and maintain a baseline of kindness and respect.
- Markoff 4y ago
  Last time I checked being twat was not illegal, so police should not abuse their position just because majority likes abuse this time.
- TheCoelacanth 4y ago
  Far less narcissistic than shutting down the entire country to make them watch your Renaissance fair cosplay session.
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    You don't have to watch it. And clearly many people do want to, so...
lesserknowndan 4y ago
Hopefully they will soon arrest the person who wrote the article for butchering the English language. “Woman arrested after protester holds anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh.” Apparently, the “Woman” and the “protester” are the same person.
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
It was definitely a breach of the peace, because the opinion is controversial and disrupted the event. But there's a limit to arresting those speaking out, because it can so easily be abused. That's the gist of the discussion. What further observations can we make? They used the death of Elizabeth as an excuse for suppressing the speech during a different event - the solemnizing of a new King. One is related to the other, but I fear this excuse can be used to suppress anything (Have some respect! The Queen died just last month! Stop protesting oil prices!) And let's admit, this was a goofy event about an imaginary aura being moved from one person (who is dead?!) to another (related to her? Nepotism!) It's up there with witches and demons (belief in otherworldly powers invested in humans). So maybe not of big import to most of us.
- bzzzt 4y ago
  “The only thing known to go faster than ordinary light is monarchy, according to the philosopher Ly Tin Wheedle. He reasoned like this: you can't have more than one king, and tradition demands that there is no gap between kings, so when a king dies the succession must therefore pass to the heir instantaneously. Presumably, he said, there must be some elementary particles -- kingons, or possibly queons -- that do this job, but of course succession sometimes fails if, in mid-flight, they strike an anti-particle, or republicon. His ambitious plans to use his discovery to send messages, involving the careful torturing of a small king in order to modulate the signal, were never fully expanded because, at that point, the bar closed.” ― Terry Pratchett, Mort

10 points by Markoff 4y ago

A woman was arrested after a protester held an anti-monarchy sign “f*k imperialism, abolish monarchy” ahead of the accession proclamation of King Charles III in Edinburgh. Police Scotland said the arrest was made outside St Giles’ Cathedral, where the Queen’s coffin is due to be held on Monday. Moments before the proclamation on Sunday afternoon, a demonstrator appeared in the crowd opposite the Mercat Cross. Officers appeared behind her and took her away, prompting the crowd to applaud. One man shouted: “Let her go, it’s free speech,” while others yelled: “Have some respect.” A police spokesman said a 22-year-old woman was arrested “in connection with a breach of the peace”. It came after hecklers were heard booing during the event. During the first proclamation of Charles, the Lord Lyon King of Arms gave a speech before declaring “God save the King”, which the crowd repeated. One man was heard booing throughout the cheers. The national anthem was then sung but, afterwards, people could be heard calling for a republic. After Lord Lyon King led three cheers, saying “hip hip” to replies of “hooray”, booing was heard for a second time. Some mourners called the hecklers “disrespectful”, saying they should have avoided the proclamation if they believe in a republic. Helen Smith, 48, from Livingston, told the PA news agency: “I believe everyone does have a right to protest, but I thought it was the wrong place at the wrong time. “(It was) incredibly disrespectful to the event that we were just seeing.” Ms Smith, an engineer, she feels it dampened the event for the rest of the crowd. “We saw the police keeping an eye on things behind us, and we thought something was going to kick off, and it did,” she said. “We just felt disappointed because the eyes of the world are on us at the moment. “It’s a massive moment in history. We’ve had the death of the longest-serving monarch we’ve ever had, we’ve got the new King being proclaimed, and then we have the heckling at the back and the shouting.” Ann Hamilton, 48, said she thought the interruptions were “terrible”. Ms Hamilton, who travelled from Dumfries, told PA: “There’s tens of thousands of people here today to show their respect. “For them to be here, heckling through things, I think it was terrible. If they were so against it, they shouldn’t have come. “Once everyone was singing God Save The King with their full voices, it was drowning them out.” Donald Maclaren, 64, of Livingston, added: “It’s very disrespectful. There is a time and a place if you want to protest, but this isn’t it. “Somebody shouted, ‘Republic now’. Then, when they were doing the three cheers, somebody was booing.” Liz Maclaren, 67, also branded it “disrespectful”, saying: “The boos sounded like one person.”

TotoHorner 4y ago
> "I believe everyone does have a right to protest, but I thought it was the wrong place at the wrong time." Totally cool to protest, just as long as the cause is popular.
- Markoff 4y ago
  Indeed, it's not everyone if you add BUT. There should be no but, period.
Markoff 4y ago
are there bots in HN or who downvotes quoted article to help people to read it without clicking to dismiss sign up screen?

ashwagary 4y ago

No freedom of speech in England.

dave4420 4y ago
Edinburgh is in Scotland.
flave 4y ago
Edinburgh is in Scotland and in the UK we have Freedom of Expression not Freedom of Speech. Before you ask, the difference is that you have the right to state your opinion but there are limits on the ways in which you can state them. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part/I/chapter/9#:~:text=Changes%20to%20Legislation,-Revised%20legislation%20carried&text=1Everyone%20has%20the%20right,authority%20and%20regardless%20of%20frontiers https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1/part....
lm28469 4y ago
It doesn't exist anywhere. Even in the US you have libel and defamation laws, which are not compatible with free speech absolutism. You'll find hundreds of other things if you start digging too Americans talking about their free speech is the funniest thing ever
- ashwagary 4y ago
  In America, you can hold an anti-anything sign in public and won't get arrested.

flave 4y ago

The Independent is not a trustworthy journalistic outlet so I'd recommend reading this link (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/11/republican-protesters-arrested-king-charles-proclamation-events https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/11/republican-p...) first. This type of stuff is very concerning but it's been around for a while. Section 5 of the Public Order Act is essentially a catch all to arrest (and typically take them to a police station and de-arrest them). It's fairly common during disorder and I've seen it personally. @TotoHorner above/below makes the joke "cool to protest provided it's something popular' but that is basically the case with Section 5. The wording is something like "likely to cause widespread offence or alarm" which means that the offence is defined in line with what the police or judges believe is the public mood. One example of this was that during COVID, a woman was murdered by an off duty police officer and there were protests in London during a lockdown. Many of the people at the protest were arrested (as had protested during anti-lockdown protest) but subsequently the police apologised and said they regretted what they did. There's no doubt they were implementing the law as written but they implemented it against a popular and sympathetic group - which didn't work out well.

Beltalowda 4y ago

Shouldn't people who wish to attend an event also have the freedom to do so without someone standing next to them shouting abuse? Especially the case where people were mourning The Queen it seems rather misguided and insensitive. There are a million-and-one ways to protest the monarchy; more than ever before. Seems narcissistic and petty to go and ruin other people's days. That's not "protesting", that's just being a twat. For what it's worth, I'm not in favour of the monarchy, but we can be against the monarchy and maintain a baseline of kindness and respect.

Markoff 4y ago
Last time I checked being twat was not illegal, so police should not abuse their position just because majority likes abuse this time.
TheCoelacanth 4y ago
Far less narcissistic than shutting down the entire country to make them watch your Renaissance fair cosplay session.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  You don't have to watch it. And clearly many people do want to, so...

lesserknowndan 4y ago

Hopefully they will soon arrest the person who wrote the article for butchering the English language. “Woman arrested after protester holds anti-monarchy sign in Edinburgh.” Apparently, the “Woman” and the “protester” are the same person.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

It was definitely a breach of the peace, because the opinion is controversial and disrupted the event. But there's a limit to arresting those speaking out, because it can so easily be abused. That's the gist of the discussion. What further observations can we make? They used the death of Elizabeth as an excuse for suppressing the speech during a different event - the solemnizing of a new King. One is related to the other, but I fear this excuse can be used to suppress anything (Have some respect! The Queen died just last month! Stop protesting oil prices!) And let's admit, this was a goofy event about an imaginary aura being moved from one person (who is dead?!) to another (related to her? Nepotism!) It's up there with witches and demons (belief in otherworldly powers invested in humans). So maybe not of big import to most of us.

bzzzt 4y ago
“The only thing known to go faster than ordinary light is monarchy, according to the philosopher Ly Tin Wheedle. He reasoned like this: you can't have more than one king, and tradition demands that there is no gap between kings, so when a king dies the succession must therefore pass to the heir instantaneously. Presumably, he said, there must be some elementary particles -- kingons, or possibly queons -- that do this job, but of course succession sometimes fails if, in mid-flight, they strike an anti-particle, or republicon. His ambitious plans to use his discovery to send messages, involving the careful torturing of a small king in order to modulate the signal, were never fully expanded because, at that point, the bar closed.” ― Terry Pratchett, Mort