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what even is devops in the first place? Like is it just IT for deployments with a bunch of management lingo tacked on? like how are there people in the industr

what even is devops in the first place? Like is it just IT for deployments with a bunch of management lingo tacked on? like how are there people in the industry working on this sort of thing who can't code? It just bugs me, I talked with someone from work whose job title was System Engineer; I asked them if they do systems programming or something... and they said they don't know how to program (even after getting some kind of tech degree!!)

aliasxneo 4y ago
I'm still trying to figure out if there's a difference between DevOps and SRE.
- sofixa 4y ago
  There is and isn't. SRE is Google's more strictly defined DevOps, basically - after DevOps started to get slapped across everything (classic sysadmins, CI/CD tooling people, etc.), Google came out with something that basically defines, more narrowly, something very similar to the DevOps role (as originally intended), in a lot of detail. There is a slight difference in focus though, because DevOps also focuses on the role's interactions with development, while SRE focused on the role itself and using metrics and data to be able to do the work required (SLOs, etc.). I personally prefer the SRE term, because it's usually better understood and has a narrower meaning. DevOps can mean a lot more different things.
nuker 4y ago
> what even is devops in the first place? Cloud engineer. Must write Cloudformation templates if AWS, know many resource types and properties, know linux and networks. Python is a plus for fringe cases automation, when there is no clear cloud vendor solution. PS: Did not read TFA
28304283409234 4y ago
I spoke to another person calling themselves 'Full Stack Engineer", but couldn't even explain the OSI model. What's your point? Titles rarely match competences and responsibilities.
- mr_toad 4y ago
  The “stack” in full-stack engineering used to refer to the software stack, not the network stack. The old-school eponymous LAMP stack used to be Linux, Angular, MySQL, and PHP. You wouldn’t necessarily have had to have known the OSI model to be proficient in those technologies.
  - bdavis__ 4y ago
    s/Angular/Apache/ LAMP was a term from the 1990's.
    - jimz 4y ago
      And the stack is still used today by plenty of people around the world, what's the problem?
- 8organicbits 4y ago
  Is that really a relevant question? A full-stack title usually means web front-end, mobile, web back-end (or API), and database. Its a generalist title. You work mostly with HTTP, but even then an API framework may hide that. If you're deploying to a PaaS you may never care about or notice lower layers. If not, your team may have a specialist (DevOps, platform engineer, network engineer) who manages network configuration, DNS, load balancer, connection pooling, firewalls, VPN, and other details.
- cetahfh14615 4y ago
  I mean, in full stack engineering (from my exp) you work primarily with rest and don't ever make use of lower level networking details. maybe it's different for someone working in networking or a more specific subfield. It might've been different in the past, idk
l3uwin 4y ago
a sysadmin who codes, or a programmer who has learned systems. it was supposed to be a culture and set of tools to close the gaps between developers and operations but its more building automations that make ops disappear because docker hard or some other nonsense.
- P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
  deployment in a microservices environment is absolutely more difficult than in a monolithic environment. That's the entire thing, the complexity moves into the orchestration.

aliasxneo 4y ago

I'm still trying to figure out if there's a difference between DevOps and SRE.

sofixa 4y ago
There is and isn't. SRE is Google's more strictly defined DevOps, basically - after DevOps started to get slapped across everything (classic sysadmins, CI/CD tooling people, etc.), Google came out with something that basically defines, more narrowly, something very similar to the DevOps role (as originally intended), in a lot of detail. There is a slight difference in focus though, because DevOps also focuses on the role's interactions with development, while SRE focused on the role itself and using metrics and data to be able to do the work required (SLOs, etc.). I personally prefer the SRE term, because it's usually better understood and has a narrower meaning. DevOps can mean a lot more different things.

nuker 4y ago

> what even is devops in the first place? Cloud engineer. Must write Cloudformation templates if AWS, know many resource types and properties, know linux and networks. Python is a plus for fringe cases automation, when there is no clear cloud vendor solution. PS: Did not read TFA

28304283409234 4y ago

I spoke to another person calling themselves 'Full Stack Engineer", but couldn't even explain the OSI model. What's your point? Titles rarely match competences and responsibilities.

mr_toad 4y ago
The “stack” in full-stack engineering used to refer to the software stack, not the network stack. The old-school eponymous LAMP stack used to be Linux, Angular, MySQL, and PHP. You wouldn’t necessarily have had to have known the OSI model to be proficient in those technologies.
- bdavis__ 4y ago
  s/Angular/Apache/ LAMP was a term from the 1990's.
  - jimz 4y ago
    And the stack is still used today by plenty of people around the world, what's the problem?
8organicbits 4y ago
Is that really a relevant question? A full-stack title usually means web front-end, mobile, web back-end (or API), and database. Its a generalist title. You work mostly with HTTP, but even then an API framework may hide that. If you're deploying to a PaaS you may never care about or notice lower layers. If not, your team may have a specialist (DevOps, platform engineer, network engineer) who manages network configuration, DNS, load balancer, connection pooling, firewalls, VPN, and other details.
cetahfh14615 4y ago
I mean, in full stack engineering (from my exp) you work primarily with rest and don't ever make use of lower level networking details. maybe it's different for someone working in networking or a more specific subfield. It might've been different in the past, idk

l3uwin 4y ago

a sysadmin who codes, or a programmer who has learned systems. it was supposed to be a culture and set of tools to close the gaps between developers and operations but its more building automations that make ops disappear because docker hard or some other nonsense.

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
deployment in a microservices environment is absolutely more difficult than in a monolithic environment. That's the entire thing, the complexity moves into the orchestration.