4 ms·

Would you apply this same logic to a group like Occupy Democrats? It seems like a very poor litmus test to immediately be dismissive of someone's view because o

Would you apply this same logic to a group like Occupy Democrats? It seems like a very poor litmus test to immediately be dismissive of someone's view because of an association with (what seems to be) a political party you don't like.

nerdponx 4y ago
Yes, especially when it comes to a "mainstream" Democratic Party organization like Occupy. I mistrust "conservatism" a bit more than whatever the mainstream Democratic Party is, but only a bit. Both generally seem to be disingenuous and concerned more with the appearance of having principles than with actually having principles.
- rayiner 4y ago
  So political parties purport to have principles? That’s a very weird way to look at them. Fundamentally, political parties are groups of people that have just enough in common to work together. There’s general themes, but it doesn’t make sense to ascribe to them principles.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Principles have to live in a constitution now?
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    1) Conservatism isn't a political party as such, 2) conservatives in particular seem to be very big on emphasizing their strong principles and adherence thereto... as long as it doesn't inconvenience them or expose them to icky things like new ideas or social progress.
    - Test0129 4y ago
      Could you not argue the same thing about progressives? They are very big on the emphasis of so-called "social progress" even when they don't do it themselves. Most famously I could argue that this entire push for climate change by the progressives has done nearly nothing to stop the actual producers of it (the 1%) and instead puts yet another burden on the everyman. These limousine liberals are the party-equivalent of the very people you are saying exist exclusively in the conservative parties. Both dogmas have their place. The problem we have isn't that the two exist, it's that there's now a gap between them you can measure in AUs. Some ideas are better expressed by conservatism. That is, keeping the status quo. Some ideas are best expressed with progressivism. Right now the two parties are being turned in tribes by the media (twitter especially in this example) which benefits absolutely no one but the people who actually hold the power. As for democrats and republicans, it's my opinion they play on the same team. Your reply strikes me as sitting further on the edges of the horseshoe than you might realize.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      Which conservatives? Trump populists? Bush neocons? Buchanan paleocons? Reaganites?
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    There is a massive difference between what some political parties openly claim they stand behind, and their actual record of votes and policy outcomes.
anigbrowl 4y ago
Yes, absolutely. I'm far left by most people's standards and Occupy Democrats is trash. I would say it's different from TPUSA insofar as OD is more of an online brand than an organization but I can think of many other examples.

nerdponx 4y ago

Yes, especially when it comes to a "mainstream" Democratic Party organization like Occupy. I mistrust "conservatism" a bit more than whatever the mainstream Democratic Party is, but only a bit. Both generally seem to be disingenuous and concerned more with the appearance of having principles than with actually having principles.

rayiner 4y ago
So political parties purport to have principles? That’s a very weird way to look at them. Fundamentally, political parties are groups of people that have just enough in common to work together. There’s general themes, but it doesn’t make sense to ascribe to them principles.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  Principles have to live in a constitution now?
- nerdponx 4y ago
  1) Conservatism isn't a political party as such, 2) conservatives in particular seem to be very big on emphasizing their strong principles and adherence thereto... as long as it doesn't inconvenience them or expose them to icky things like new ideas or social progress.
  - Test0129 4y ago
    Could you not argue the same thing about progressives? They are very big on the emphasis of so-called "social progress" even when they don't do it themselves. Most famously I could argue that this entire push for climate change by the progressives has done nearly nothing to stop the actual producers of it (the 1%) and instead puts yet another burden on the everyman. These limousine liberals are the party-equivalent of the very people you are saying exist exclusively in the conservative parties. Both dogmas have their place. The problem we have isn't that the two exist, it's that there's now a gap between them you can measure in AUs. Some ideas are better expressed by conservatism. That is, keeping the status quo. Some ideas are best expressed with progressivism. Right now the two parties are being turned in tribes by the media (twitter especially in this example) which benefits absolutely no one but the people who actually hold the power. As for democrats and republicans, it's my opinion they play on the same team. Your reply strikes me as sitting further on the edges of the horseshoe than you might realize.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Which conservatives? Trump populists? Bush neocons? Buchanan paleocons? Reaganites?
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  There is a massive difference between what some political parties openly claim they stand behind, and their actual record of votes and policy outcomes.

anigbrowl 4y ago

Yes, absolutely. I'm far left by most people's standards and Occupy Democrats is trash. I would say it's different from TPUSA insofar as OD is more of an online brand than an organization but I can think of many other examples.