6 ms·

JPMorgan, Deutsche Bank are turning off hot water, prepping diesel generators

39 points by cwwc 4y ago

melling 4y ago
Isn’t diesel especially unhealthy? https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2022/09/06/there-is-no-safe-level-of-exposure-to-diesel-exhaust-letters/ https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2022/09/06/there-is-no-safe...
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  The particulate emissions very much so. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4894930/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4894930/ Tangentially, I hope tech operations are migrating workloads elsewhere when possible to alleviate energy demand in Europe.
  - TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
    Get a DEF system. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
  Diesel is especially fire safe, which is why it is used in industrial applications.
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  What is your point? Please, tell me what conclusion you're driving at. Or are you just mentioning it?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
hedora 4y ago
Electric heat pump water heaters have a coefficient of power of over three, and easily retrofittable minisplit air conditioners/heaters are well above four. I don’t understand why Europe hasn’t bought up the world’s manufacturing capacity of them for all of 2022.
- hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
  reading between the lines of the press release about the US Defense Production Act hints that production could be for Europe: >To reduce the amount of energy needed in our buildings, leading to less reliance by the U.S. and allies on adversaries such as Russia for oil and gas, heat pumps are an important solution. Their use by the U.S. and allies can shrink Russian revenue for war and reduce climate instability. - President Biden Invokes Defense Production Act to Accelerate Domestic Manufacturing of Clean Energy June 6, 2022 https://www.energy.gov/articles/president-biden-invokes-defense-production-act-accelerate-domestic-manufacturing-clean https://www.energy.gov/articles/president-biden-invokes-defe... I don't know what the timelines might look like for getting them made, sold, and installed or how much is a "just in case " plan; it sounds like you've read that Europe been slow to buy up what is available?
  - hedora 4y ago
    It's good to know the US is accelerating production. I heard there's no real path to restoring Europe's natural gas supply for the next two winters; perhaps the Defense Production act will help provide units next winter? Also, I found these two articles, suggesting parts of Europe are ramping up installations. Poland doubled installs of heat pumps this year: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/heat-pumps-take-off-in-coal-loving-poland-amid-ukraine-war/ar-AA11w2jP https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/heat-pumps-take-off-in-... In Germany, they're up 25% (vs 4% pre-war, and gas furnaces are down 10%): https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/heat-pump-installations-25-germany-first-half-2022-while-gas-heating-sales-slump https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/heat-pump-installations... (Though I'm surprised gas furnaces are only down 10%!)
- aa-jv 4y ago
  Europe is resisting the con. We see the corruption first-hand, especially those of us within spitting distance of war refugees. Europe will fracture over the Ukraine issue, and when it does - demand will change.
8bitsrule 4y ago
Tankless (gas or electric) water heaters (on-demand) might be suitable for many situations. I think they're far more common in Europe. https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/tankless-or-demand-type-water-heaters https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/tankless-or-demand-type-w...
UncleEntity 4y ago
I spent three (Arizona) winters without hot water because I was too lazy to pay the bill, isn’t all that bad…as in, I’m still alive.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  If I turn off the hot water here, I’ll freeze to death in a few weeks or months. I don’t have a fireplace, and my house is heated by hot water. The temperature gets far colder for far longer than Arizona (used to live there, now live in the EU).
  - rosnd 4y ago
    Do you not have clothes? Can you not sleep under a heated blanket? Why would you freeze to death?
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      I imagine there is a reason we built houses with fire places. Also, I am sure that I’d need a shower at some point to join society.
      - rosnd 4y ago
        >I imagine there is a reason we built houses with fire places. Yes, comfort. > Also, I am sure that I’d need a shower at some point to join society. It's perfectly safe to take a shower using cold water.
        withinboredom 4y ago
        So all the people who die in the winter from exposure due to power failure in their homes are “just doing it wrong?” I can see that, you have to be pretty prepared to live below freezing for an extended period of time: eat lots of calories, avoid sweating, lots of clothing, etc. and most people don’t know any of that unless they’ve lived in the elements (like you and I, apparently). Convincing my family to live like that and training them to survive below-freezing temps inside their own house which is capable of keeping them warm with the push of a button … very unlikely.

39 points by cwwc 4y ago

Isn’t diesel especially unhealthy? https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2022/09/06/there-is-no-safe-level-of-exposure-to-diesel-exhaust-letters/ https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2022/09/06/there-is-no-safe...

toomuchtodo 4y ago
The particulate emissions very much so. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4894930/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4894930/ Tangentially, I hope tech operations are migrating workloads elsewhere when possible to alleviate energy demand in Europe.
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
  Get a DEF system. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid
TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
Diesel is especially fire safe, which is why it is used in industrial applications.
unethical_ban 4y ago
What is your point? Please, tell me what conclusion you're driving at. Or are you just mentioning it?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

hedora 4y ago

Electric heat pump water heaters have a coefficient of power of over three, and easily retrofittable minisplit air conditioners/heaters are well above four. I don’t understand why Europe hasn’t bought up the world’s manufacturing capacity of them for all of 2022.

hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
reading between the lines of the press release about the US Defense Production Act hints that production could be for Europe: >To reduce the amount of energy needed in our buildings, leading to less reliance by the U.S. and allies on adversaries such as Russia for oil and gas, heat pumps are an important solution. Their use by the U.S. and allies can shrink Russian revenue for war and reduce climate instability. - President Biden Invokes Defense Production Act to Accelerate Domestic Manufacturing of Clean Energy June 6, 2022 https://www.energy.gov/articles/president-biden-invokes-defense-production-act-accelerate-domestic-manufacturing-clean https://www.energy.gov/articles/president-biden-invokes-defe... I don't know what the timelines might look like for getting them made, sold, and installed or how much is a "just in case " plan; it sounds like you've read that Europe been slow to buy up what is available?
- hedora 4y ago
  It's good to know the US is accelerating production. I heard there's no real path to restoring Europe's natural gas supply for the next two winters; perhaps the Defense Production act will help provide units next winter? Also, I found these two articles, suggesting parts of Europe are ramping up installations. Poland doubled installs of heat pumps this year: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/heat-pumps-take-off-in-coal-loving-poland-amid-ukraine-war/ar-AA11w2jP https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/heat-pumps-take-off-in-... In Germany, they're up 25% (vs 4% pre-war, and gas furnaces are down 10%): https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/heat-pump-installations-25-germany-first-half-2022-while-gas-heating-sales-slump https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/heat-pump-installations... (Though I'm surprised gas furnaces are only down 10%!)
aa-jv 4y ago
Europe is resisting the con. We see the corruption first-hand, especially those of us within spitting distance of war refugees. Europe will fracture over the Ukraine issue, and when it does - demand will change.

8bitsrule 4y ago

Tankless (gas or electric) water heaters (on-demand) might be suitable for many situations. I think they're far more common in Europe. https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/tankless-or-demand-type-water-heaters https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/tankless-or-demand-type-w...

UncleEntity 4y ago

I spent three (Arizona) winters without hot water because I was too lazy to pay the bill, isn’t all that bad…as in, I’m still alive.

withinboredom 4y ago
If I turn off the hot water here, I’ll freeze to death in a few weeks or months. I don’t have a fireplace, and my house is heated by hot water. The temperature gets far colder for far longer than Arizona (used to live there, now live in the EU).
- rosnd 4y ago
  Do you not have clothes? Can you not sleep under a heated blanket? Why would you freeze to death?
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    I imagine there is a reason we built houses with fire places. Also, I am sure that I’d need a shower at some point to join society.
    - rosnd 4y ago
      >I imagine there is a reason we built houses with fire places. Yes, comfort. > Also, I am sure that I’d need a shower at some point to join society. It's perfectly safe to take a shower using cold water.
      - withinboredom 4y ago
        So all the people who die in the winter from exposure due to power failure in their homes are “just doing it wrong?” I can see that, you have to be pretty prepared to live below freezing for an extended period of time: eat lots of calories, avoid sweating, lots of clothing, etc. and most people don’t know any of that unless they’ve lived in the elements (like you and I, apparently). Convincing my family to live like that and training them to survive below-freezing temps inside their own house which is capable of keeping them warm with the push of a button … very unlikely.