6 ms·

Show HN: eInk Android Phone, I’m using it as a shipping label

37 points by schappim 4y ago

mdmglr 4y ago
Neat idea. I think a thermal printed label will be more durable. Instead of cutting the box to make it flush could it be instead put in a plastic pouch- like the one used for customs documents? What is the durability of an eInk screen? If it gets punctured could it still be readable? The Hisense a9 is $280 USD. So not exactly what I would call cheap. Another benefit I see of this is tracking. Perhaps each phone could run software to track all other similar phones and report location over cellular when available similar to AirTag.
- schappim 4y ago
  The ultimate design would be a reusable polymer box, with a clear polycarbonate shield of the display. The test was to explore whether Australia Post could ship using a low contrast label. One of the companies I own is an authorised reseller for a famous single board computer, in parallel, I made the same using eink accessories for it. The Hisense came out cheaper (once you add coms, power management and display). I’ve also made/collaborated on my a WebUSB shipping label printer, picking and packing robot, but applying a label etc is a little challenging without spending the big bucks. It’s at the point we’re eink may be easier than trying to automate the application of labels etc in a consistent manner. Finally we have used AirTags to ship high $$$ value items where shipping insurance would be uneconomical. They work a charm, but Apple has a fairly low limit on number of devices per iCloud account.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  Durability of most eInk screens is not that good. Most, especially the smaller ones use a glass substrate. If the glass cracks the screen is busted and it won't be readable or at least parts of it. Paper makes loads more sense. Lighter, no battery, durable enough, easier to read too because of better contrast.
  - Meph504 4y ago
    If the device has a lithium battery powering the display, it will likely be tossed from most carriers, the last thing they want in the hull of their aircraft is a poorly handled, cheaply built lithium battery powered device.
  - absolutelynobo 4y ago
    This is such an out-of-date take. Plastic e-ink displays have been around for more than 5 years.
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      And most devices still don't use one. Even new devices.
      - absolutelynobo 4y ago
        that’s because everyone overwhelmingly prefers full color. do you see anyone buying b&w TVs today?
donavanm 4y ago
As an FYI the AWS “snow” data transport devices use similar eink displays from kindles. More than just dynamic shipping labels they’re used for end user configuration instructions, IIRC. ex. https://iotarizona.com/2020/07/10/amazon-rolls-out-aws-snowcone-for-portable-ruggedized-edge-computing/ https://iotarizona.com/2020/07/10/amazon-rolls-out-aws-snowc...
- schappim 4y ago
  Hacking a kindle was my first port of call, but I was unable to jailbreak the one in my possession :-(
- synicalx 4y ago
  The first time I used one of those, the e-ink shipping label blew my mind. Such a good idea for something that gets re-used constantly.
drekipus 4y ago
I like e ink but this idea isn't doing it for me. Shopping labels are cheap and easy to print, and in a world where we're staying to pay attention to the environment, this looks like a step backwards. I also want to get a Hisense a5 and start messing with it
- sdflhasjd 4y ago
  > cheap and easy to print If you have a printer of course. Amazon returns drive me up the wall because unlike everyone else, they expect you to print your own labels. That being said, if you don't have a printer, you'll also not have a e-ink label to throw away.
  - TheGrumpyBrit 4y ago
    UK here, and we don't print return labels for Amazon. We just take the package to the local store, and they scan the returns barcode on my phone which then prints a shipping label right there, and also doubles as an electronic receipt of where I handed over the parcel.
  - schappim 4y ago
    I suspect this could be more useful in a B2B setting (similar to how pallets are used today).
  - yunohn 4y ago
    > Amazon returns drive me up the wall because unlike everyone else, they expect you to print your own labels. I live in the EU, and I don’t know any e-commerce brands that ship you a label every time you request a return - that sounds incredibly wasteful.
    - sdflhasjd 4y ago
      My experience is they send a return label in with the product initially, and for some more high value items, they'll send a courier to pick up. They also don't need barcodes for processing, so you can normally just write the address on the box.
zinekeller 4y ago
I actually like the idea, but unfortunately I have to dampen your expectations: - It will disqualify your package from boarding an airplane unless you put the necessary stickers on the box (and sometimes the will not allow it, period). - For international shipping, it will basically make a lot of customs agencies angry. The reason it is printed on paper is for reasonable permanence, doing this (assuming it passes the source country) will a) basically label that package as contraband and b) might talk to the source country on who the heck sent this and if they could file charges for endangering shipping (see lithium batteries warning above) or simply due to not following customs rules. - It adds weight, which might matter (especially if your shipping rates is based on weight). - Finally, even ignoring or mitigating everything on this list, your package could be simply handled so badly that the ink actually centrifuges away.
- bodangly 4y ago
  I made something like this for a local client, but w much cheaper components, and it’s in a specially designed pelican case for shipping equipment out to customers and then back. I am of the understanding it is not legal to ship batteries that are on. I’m not sure if this applies to NiCd but due to much less regulation around them in general and a better safety profile that is what we went with. It’s heavy. But for this application of shipping specialized expensive equipment it makes sense. For general needs, definitely not.
  - zinekeller 4y ago
    > I’m not sure if this applies to NiCd but due to much less regulation around them in general and a better safety profile that is what we went with. I think if the nominal voltage difference is less than 9V, it's only subject to prevention of short circuit (to avoid fires). >=9V is on a separate category which requires formal testing and labeling (still not as strict as lithium batteries though).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nocsi 4y ago
1. This is the kind of thing that fiduciary markers/qr codes should be taking over. Shipping labels are only required to be human readable right now, because humans are currently involved. That reduces the screen size requirement. 2. Next, use an eink display not requiring batteries. So the shipper would render into the screen pre shipment. This allows the parcel to meet air freight requirements. 3. What’s the incentive to even send the label back?
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  You could easily do the incentive as a refundable deposit... As a customer though I would actively avoid this for the hassle of having to ship something back. I'm not sure what benefit it could provide me that a text message with some links couldnt
- tadfisher 4y ago
  For point 2, there are tons of options available to retail stores for price labeling. They are relatively cheap, and the screen refresh is performed by a handheld device, so no batteries included.
  - schappim 4y ago
    It'd be pretty awesome if one could change the label mid flight to correct for change of address requests. ... or even if we want to go to the extreme end of possibilities, a realtime marketplace for transportation w/ spot prices based on available capacity.
    - Meph504 4y ago
      It is easier to have something like a zebra thermal printer with an RFID in the label, print new, and replace. The e-ink ones that can be updated via the power of the devices, often are scrambled from any Hi-RF devices, including airport security scans, the likelihood of this becoming a practical technological use for this product seems highly unlikely.
syntaxing 4y ago
It’s a neat idea but e-ink displays are dirt cheap compared to a Hisense phone…A waveshare screen + a esp(whatever) would be less than $40 total. If you really want it nicely packaged, you can get a M5paper for about $85.
- schappim 4y ago
  We resell Waveshare in Australia. I can confirm that the price of the phone, was cheaper than the m5paper + supporting electonics (coms, power and processing).
  - syntaxing 4y ago
    Curious what an android phone provides more than the M5paper? Isn’t the M5paper pretty much all in one (like you mentioned coms, battery, and processor are all in the M5paper)?
superchroma 4y ago
Auspost damages parcels periodically, they do lose parcels and send them to the wrong places, meaning they're in transit for more than a few days. I think these are tricky problems to overcome. Probably a bespoke device running of a raspi or something may help a bit here.
amadeuspagel 4y ago
It's cool, but seeing this used as label, the first thing I think about it is how easy it would be to use that to confuse the postal service, by changing the address during transportation. And I think for that reason this is probably going to get banned.
nashashmi 4y ago
Paper is better??

37 points by schappim 4y ago

Neat idea. I think a thermal printed label will be more durable. Instead of cutting the box to make it flush could it be instead put in a plastic pouch- like the one used for customs documents? What is the durability of an eInk screen? If it gets punctured could it still be readable? The Hisense a9 is $280 USD. So not exactly what I would call cheap. Another benefit I see of this is tracking. Perhaps each phone could run software to track all other similar phones and report location over cellular when available similar to AirTag.

schappim 4y ago
The ultimate design would be a reusable polymer box, with a clear polycarbonate shield of the display. The test was to explore whether Australia Post could ship using a low contrast label. One of the companies I own is an authorised reseller for a famous single board computer, in parallel, I made the same using eink accessories for it. The Hisense came out cheaper (once you add coms, power management and display). I’ve also made/collaborated on my a WebUSB shipping label printer, picking and packing robot, but applying a label etc is a little challenging without spending the big bucks. It’s at the point we’re eink may be easier than trying to automate the application of labels etc in a consistent manner. Finally we have used AirTags to ship high $$$ value items where shipping insurance would be uneconomical. They work a charm, but Apple has a fairly low limit on number of devices per iCloud account.
goosedragons 4y ago
Durability of most eInk screens is not that good. Most, especially the smaller ones use a glass substrate. If the glass cracks the screen is busted and it won't be readable or at least parts of it. Paper makes loads more sense. Lighter, no battery, durable enough, easier to read too because of better contrast.
- Meph504 4y ago
  If the device has a lithium battery powering the display, it will likely be tossed from most carriers, the last thing they want in the hull of their aircraft is a poorly handled, cheaply built lithium battery powered device.
- absolutelynobo 4y ago
  This is such an out-of-date take. Plastic e-ink displays have been around for more than 5 years.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    And most devices still don't use one. Even new devices.
    - absolutelynobo 4y ago
      that’s because everyone overwhelmingly prefers full color. do you see anyone buying b&w TVs today?

donavanm 4y ago

As an FYI the AWS “snow” data transport devices use similar eink displays from kindles. More than just dynamic shipping labels they’re used for end user configuration instructions, IIRC. ex. https://iotarizona.com/2020/07/10/amazon-rolls-out-aws-snowcone-for-portable-ruggedized-edge-computing/ https://iotarizona.com/2020/07/10/amazon-rolls-out-aws-snowc...

schappim 4y ago
Hacking a kindle was my first port of call, but I was unable to jailbreak the one in my possession :-(
synicalx 4y ago
The first time I used one of those, the e-ink shipping label blew my mind. Such a good idea for something that gets re-used constantly.

drekipus 4y ago

I like e ink but this idea isn't doing it for me. Shopping labels are cheap and easy to print, and in a world where we're staying to pay attention to the environment, this looks like a step backwards. I also want to get a Hisense a5 and start messing with it

sdflhasjd 4y ago
> cheap and easy to print If you have a printer of course. Amazon returns drive me up the wall because unlike everyone else, they expect you to print your own labels. That being said, if you don't have a printer, you'll also not have a e-ink label to throw away.
- TheGrumpyBrit 4y ago
  UK here, and we don't print return labels for Amazon. We just take the package to the local store, and they scan the returns barcode on my phone which then prints a shipping label right there, and also doubles as an electronic receipt of where I handed over the parcel.
- schappim 4y ago
  I suspect this could be more useful in a B2B setting (similar to how pallets are used today).
- yunohn 4y ago
  > Amazon returns drive me up the wall because unlike everyone else, they expect you to print your own labels. I live in the EU, and I don’t know any e-commerce brands that ship you a label every time you request a return - that sounds incredibly wasteful.
  - sdflhasjd 4y ago
    My experience is they send a return label in with the product initially, and for some more high value items, they'll send a courier to pick up. They also don't need barcodes for processing, so you can normally just write the address on the box.

zinekeller 4y ago

I actually like the idea, but unfortunately I have to dampen your expectations: - It will disqualify your package from boarding an airplane unless you put the necessary stickers on the box (and sometimes the will not allow it, period). - For international shipping, it will basically make a lot of customs agencies angry. The reason it is printed on paper is for reasonable permanence, doing this (assuming it passes the source country) will a) basically label that package as contraband and b) might talk to the source country on who the heck sent this and if they could file charges for endangering shipping (see lithium batteries warning above) or simply due to not following customs rules. - It adds weight, which might matter (especially if your shipping rates is based on weight). - Finally, even ignoring or mitigating everything on this list, your package could be simply handled so badly that the ink actually centrifuges away.

bodangly 4y ago
I made something like this for a local client, but w much cheaper components, and it’s in a specially designed pelican case for shipping equipment out to customers and then back. I am of the understanding it is not legal to ship batteries that are on. I’m not sure if this applies to NiCd but due to much less regulation around them in general and a better safety profile that is what we went with. It’s heavy. But for this application of shipping specialized expensive equipment it makes sense. For general needs, definitely not.
- zinekeller 4y ago
  > I’m not sure if this applies to NiCd but due to much less regulation around them in general and a better safety profile that is what we went with. I think if the nominal voltage difference is less than 9V, it's only subject to prevention of short circuit (to avoid fires). >=9V is on a separate category which requires formal testing and labeling (still not as strict as lithium batteries though).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nocsi 4y ago

1. This is the kind of thing that fiduciary markers/qr codes should be taking over. Shipping labels are only required to be human readable right now, because humans are currently involved. That reduces the screen size requirement. 2. Next, use an eink display not requiring batteries. So the shipper would render into the screen pre shipment. This allows the parcel to meet air freight requirements. 3. What’s the incentive to even send the label back?

thatguy0900 4y ago
You could easily do the incentive as a refundable deposit... As a customer though I would actively avoid this for the hassle of having to ship something back. I'm not sure what benefit it could provide me that a text message with some links couldnt
tadfisher 4y ago
For point 2, there are tons of options available to retail stores for price labeling. They are relatively cheap, and the screen refresh is performed by a handheld device, so no batteries included.
- schappim 4y ago
  It'd be pretty awesome if one could change the label mid flight to correct for change of address requests. ... or even if we want to go to the extreme end of possibilities, a realtime marketplace for transportation w/ spot prices based on available capacity.
  - Meph504 4y ago
    It is easier to have something like a zebra thermal printer with an RFID in the label, print new, and replace. The e-ink ones that can be updated via the power of the devices, often are scrambled from any Hi-RF devices, including airport security scans, the likelihood of this becoming a practical technological use for this product seems highly unlikely.

syntaxing 4y ago

It’s a neat idea but e-ink displays are dirt cheap compared to a Hisense phone…A waveshare screen + a esp(whatever) would be less than $40 total. If you really want it nicely packaged, you can get a M5paper for about $85.

schappim 4y ago
We resell Waveshare in Australia. I can confirm that the price of the phone, was cheaper than the m5paper + supporting electonics (coms, power and processing).
- syntaxing 4y ago
  Curious what an android phone provides more than the M5paper? Isn’t the M5paper pretty much all in one (like you mentioned coms, battery, and processor are all in the M5paper)?

superchroma 4y ago

Auspost damages parcels periodically, they do lose parcels and send them to the wrong places, meaning they're in transit for more than a few days. I think these are tricky problems to overcome. Probably a bespoke device running of a raspi or something may help a bit here.

amadeuspagel 4y ago

It's cool, but seeing this used as label, the first thing I think about it is how easy it would be to use that to confuse the postal service, by changing the address during transportation. And I think for that reason this is probably going to get banned.

nashashmi 4y ago

Paper is better??