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Well fusion reactors are likely to cost a huge amount of money when they do become operational. No point having them sinking in a storm. Probably just safer to

Well fusion reactors are likely to cost a huge amount of money when they do become operational. No point having them sinking in a storm. Probably just safer to charge a huge battery and put it on a ship (if you don’t want to use fossil fuels). Avoids a lot of unfoseen commercial risk. Even though you could use water for shielding, the metal container and other things that hold the reactor would be highly radioactive and brittle due to continuous neutron bombardment. You wouldn’t want that to be lost at sea spewing radiation (even though the reactor itself would shutdown automatically).

GordonS 4y ago
> Probably just safer to charge a huge battery and put it on a ship Large container ships burn through 16 tons of bunker oil per hour, and each journey can last up to 3 weeks - any idea what size of battery such a ship would need? I have no clue how to calculate that), but I'm guessing it would be completely impractical, even if we made huge strides in battery energy density.
- stormbrew 4y ago
  There seem to be efforts towards battery powered container ships out there[1], independently of any speculated use of nuclear power to charge them. Most likely they'd be battery banks in containers that get swapped out and charged at port using the same equipment as is used to load and unload cargo I believe. I remember reading that they would have more limited range and lower top speeds, but that this might not be as much of a problem as it seems because the current routes are built around large container + long haul but that's not necessarily required (for all shipping at least). [1] eg. https://maritime-executive.com/editorials/could-battery-powered-container-ships-serve-transatlantic-trade https://maritime-executive.com/editorials/could-battery-powe...
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  here fuels like hydrogen might make sence, but why not 'normal' nuclear? There are hundreds of nuclear powered ships already - submarines, Icebreakers, carriers, etc.
  - hollerith 4y ago
    >There are hundreds of nuclear powered ships already - submarines, Icebreakers, carriers, etc. Aren't they all operated by militaries though? So if a conspiracy of crew members tries to steal some enriched fuel or fission products, it is legal to just shoot them or throw them in jail for decade for trying.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      I believe this was never attempted. On board the ship itself, all the nuclear material is inside a running reactor, any would-be criminal would be dead before you could shoot them Russian nuclear icebreakers are civilian ships, and people working at normal nuclear power stations are civilians too. It is actually only relevant what happens in the part of the chain that handles nuclear fuel - thats the shipyard plus processing of spent fuel. But again, we do that for powerplants already.
- Smoosh 4y ago
  > charge a huge battery I'm hoping that some of the battery technology currently under development (such as flow batteries, or aluminium-sulphur batteries) can trade space and weight for increased total capacity. A good battery for grid storage would probably work well for a container ship.
- jodrellblank 4y ago
  1 ton of oil is roughly 12 MegaWatt-hours[1], so 12 MWh in a ton × 16 tons per hour × 24 hours in a day × 21 days in three weeks = ~96000 MWh or ~0.1GWh. Here's[2] a company offering a 1MWh battery in a standard 20ft container. EverGiven[3] carries ~20,000 standard containers. So, five EverGivens? [1] https://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/energy/convert-ton-oil-equivalent-toe-to-watt-hour-h.html https://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/energy/convert-ton... [2] https://www.geebattery.com/battery/1mw-lithium-battery-energy-storage-system https://www.geebattery.com/battery/1mw-lithium-battery-energ... (The first one I found, without looking for the smallest). [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ever_Given https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ever_Given
- MagnumOpus 4y ago
  No need for complicated calculations here... Back of an envelope: - The energy density of LiIon batteries (or molten salt, or liquidy nitrogen etc) is roughly 100x smaller than that of gasoline/diesel/bunker fuel in weight terms and 40x smaller in volume terms - The efficiency of electric motors is roughly 2x that of large diesel engines So the amount of batteries needed for the same performance is 50x larger in weight and 20x larger in volume than the oil it carries (which for a big container ship is 6,000-10,000 tons I think). Which would be impractical.

GordonS 4y ago

> Probably just safer to charge a huge battery and put it on a ship Large container ships burn through 16 tons of bunker oil per hour, and each journey can last up to 3 weeks - any idea what size of battery such a ship would need? I have no clue how to calculate that), but I'm guessing it would be completely impractical, even if we made huge strides in battery energy density.

stormbrew 4y ago
There seem to be efforts towards battery powered container ships out there[1], independently of any speculated use of nuclear power to charge them. Most likely they'd be battery banks in containers that get swapped out and charged at port using the same equipment as is used to load and unload cargo I believe. I remember reading that they would have more limited range and lower top speeds, but that this might not be as much of a problem as it seems because the current routes are built around large container + long haul but that's not necessarily required (for all shipping at least). [1] eg. https://maritime-executive.com/editorials/could-battery-powered-container-ships-serve-transatlantic-trade https://maritime-executive.com/editorials/could-battery-powe...
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
here fuels like hydrogen might make sence, but why not 'normal' nuclear? There are hundreds of nuclear powered ships already - submarines, Icebreakers, carriers, etc.
- hollerith 4y ago
  >There are hundreds of nuclear powered ships already - submarines, Icebreakers, carriers, etc. Aren't they all operated by militaries though? So if a conspiracy of crew members tries to steal some enriched fuel or fission products, it is legal to just shoot them or throw them in jail for decade for trying.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    I believe this was never attempted. On board the ship itself, all the nuclear material is inside a running reactor, any would-be criminal would be dead before you could shoot them Russian nuclear icebreakers are civilian ships, and people working at normal nuclear power stations are civilians too. It is actually only relevant what happens in the part of the chain that handles nuclear fuel - thats the shipyard plus processing of spent fuel. But again, we do that for powerplants already.
Smoosh 4y ago
> charge a huge battery I'm hoping that some of the battery technology currently under development (such as flow batteries, or aluminium-sulphur batteries) can trade space and weight for increased total capacity. A good battery for grid storage would probably work well for a container ship.
jodrellblank 4y ago
1 ton of oil is roughly 12 MegaWatt-hours[1], so 12 MWh in a ton × 16 tons per hour × 24 hours in a day × 21 days in three weeks = ~96000 MWh or ~0.1GWh. Here's[2] a company offering a 1MWh battery in a standard 20ft container. EverGiven[3] carries ~20,000 standard containers. So, five EverGivens? [1] https://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/energy/convert-ton-oil-equivalent-toe-to-watt-hour-h.html https://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/energy/convert-ton... [2] https://www.geebattery.com/battery/1mw-lithium-battery-energy-storage-system https://www.geebattery.com/battery/1mw-lithium-battery-energ... (The first one I found, without looking for the smallest). [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ever_Given https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ever_Given
MagnumOpus 4y ago
No need for complicated calculations here... Back of an envelope: - The energy density of LiIon batteries (or molten salt, or liquidy nitrogen etc) is roughly 100x smaller than that of gasoline/diesel/bunker fuel in weight terms and 40x smaller in volume terms - The efficiency of electric motors is roughly 2x that of large diesel engines So the amount of batteries needed for the same performance is 50x larger in weight and 20x larger in volume than the oil it carries (which for a big container ship is 6,000-10,000 tons I think). Which would be impractical.