4 ms·

Far more coordination with this than something like Y2K. This is a government deciding the rules of time have changed in some way. Y2K, the rules of time didn't

Far more coordination with this than something like Y2K. This is a government deciding the rules of time have changed in some way. Y2K, the rules of time didn't change, but a pattern of implementation decisions frequently used over the previous few decades broke down. A system that needs to know about the rule change has to actually receive it in some way. It has to be connected or the update has to be brought to it. That alone creates a lot of systems that cannot react to a change like this at a moment's notice. You know when Y2K and Y2038 hit relative to yourself because they're numerical rollovers that can be computed from your current time. You can't know when the congress of Whereveralia has decided to change DST rules without someone or something telling you.

hilbert42 4y ago
The fundamental problem is that we humans are slaves to our computer systems instead of them being our slaves. By definition, a computer is a streamlined process or procedure designed to help humans but that's so often not the case. (Something that's so often overlooked.) The fact is that the biggest problem in computing is that their ergonomics suck big-time. This daylight saving issue is yet another instance of it. Seems to me that both hardware designers and programmers should have a course in ergonomics as a prerequisite before they embark on their profession. I say that as someone who has literally lost years off my life trying to get poorly designed computers to adapt to doing the simplest of tasks.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
  That's a nice rant, and I don't entirely disagree with you, but it has little to do with my comment.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    Politics can change faster than the time it takes to lick a postage stamp and can do so in the most unpredictable ways. That's been a fact of life for the whole of human existence. That said, a processor can do billions of operations in the time it takes to lick a stamp. Thus, there's plenty of leeway there to ensure that computers don't even enter the political equation.
    - sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
      My point is that ergonomics and design is secondary to connectivity (continuous, intermittent, sneakernet, whatever) for a great deal of systems that need to care about time, including the latest political whims regarding time. The fastest processor ever created can't do anything with information it doesn't have.
      - hilbert42 4y ago
        "...with information it doesn't have." That's my point. But when it eventually gets that info it shouldn't be impeded in updating as is the present system.
- mike_hock 4y ago
  No, the fundamental problem is that DST is an ill-conceived concept, and being forced to inscribe it in software exposes all the contradictions and inconsistencies. As another poster said, when is 1:30am on November 6th in Ontario? The only thing this has to with computers is that we do all organizational stuff with computers nowadays. Changing DST on short notice would have caused chaos in the 19th century as well.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    "an ill-conceived concept," That's just an opinion, not an absolute fact. There's nothing fundamental about it. After all, over the last hundred years or more most countries have had DST so that's the opposite opinion - and for DST to be so widely adopted many millions thought it was a good idea. I'm only stating facts. Frankly, I couldn't give damn whether we had DST or not and I can never understand why people get so hot and bothered over the issue. If I were ever forced to choose a system then I'd choose neither standard time or DST. Instead I'd move all clocks forward an hour and leave them there permanently but I'd never lose any sleep over the matter.
    - mike_hock 4y ago
      I literally lose sleep twice a year over DST :D Yes, twice. When the clock suddenly moves back, that also causes jetlag.
      - hilbert42 4y ago
        No doubt that's a significant problem for you and others like you. But then how do we reconcile your requirements with those of others, especially when their requirements differ significantly from yours? The usual answer is to base this on a democratic decision. Either way, the minority loses out. On that point, my comments to this story turned out to be provocative but that definitely wasn't my original intention. Nevertheless, what has been very informative has been the voting on my comments, they've oscillated continually but on average they've ended up pretty close to neutral. This tells me that strongly opposing views are held in relatively equal numbers across the population and other surveys seem to indicate this depending on country, location etc. That said, the opponents of DST seem to be making a stronger pushing politically at the moment (fashions change, where I am DST was overwhelming supported when first introduced and it still has relatively strong support although its opponents are more vocal nowadays). As a person who doesn't care one way or other, it seems I'm part of a rather small minority.

hilbert42 4y ago

The fundamental problem is that we humans are slaves to our computer systems instead of them being our slaves. By definition, a computer is a streamlined process or procedure designed to help humans but that's so often not the case. (Something that's so often overlooked.) The fact is that the biggest problem in computing is that their ergonomics suck big-time. This daylight saving issue is yet another instance of it. Seems to me that both hardware designers and programmers should have a course in ergonomics as a prerequisite before they embark on their profession. I say that as someone who has literally lost years off my life trying to get poorly designed computers to adapt to doing the simplest of tasks.

sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
That's a nice rant, and I don't entirely disagree with you, but it has little to do with my comment.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  Politics can change faster than the time it takes to lick a postage stamp and can do so in the most unpredictable ways. That's been a fact of life for the whole of human existence. That said, a processor can do billions of operations in the time it takes to lick a stamp. Thus, there's plenty of leeway there to ensure that computers don't even enter the political equation.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 4y ago
    My point is that ergonomics and design is secondary to connectivity (continuous, intermittent, sneakernet, whatever) for a great deal of systems that need to care about time, including the latest political whims regarding time. The fastest processor ever created can't do anything with information it doesn't have.
    - hilbert42 4y ago
      "...with information it doesn't have." That's my point. But when it eventually gets that info it shouldn't be impeded in updating as is the present system.
mike_hock 4y ago
No, the fundamental problem is that DST is an ill-conceived concept, and being forced to inscribe it in software exposes all the contradictions and inconsistencies. As another poster said, when is 1:30am on November 6th in Ontario? The only thing this has to with computers is that we do all organizational stuff with computers nowadays. Changing DST on short notice would have caused chaos in the 19th century as well.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  "an ill-conceived concept," That's just an opinion, not an absolute fact. There's nothing fundamental about it. After all, over the last hundred years or more most countries have had DST so that's the opposite opinion - and for DST to be so widely adopted many millions thought it was a good idea. I'm only stating facts. Frankly, I couldn't give damn whether we had DST or not and I can never understand why people get so hot and bothered over the issue. If I were ever forced to choose a system then I'd choose neither standard time or DST. Instead I'd move all clocks forward an hour and leave them there permanently but I'd never lose any sleep over the matter.
  - mike_hock 4y ago
    I literally lose sleep twice a year over DST :D Yes, twice. When the clock suddenly moves back, that also causes jetlag.
    - hilbert42 4y ago
      No doubt that's a significant problem for you and others like you. But then how do we reconcile your requirements with those of others, especially when their requirements differ significantly from yours? The usual answer is to base this on a democratic decision. Either way, the minority loses out. On that point, my comments to this story turned out to be provocative but that definitely wasn't my original intention. Nevertheless, what has been very informative has been the voting on my comments, they've oscillated continually but on average they've ended up pretty close to neutral. This tells me that strongly opposing views are held in relatively equal numbers across the population and other surveys seem to indicate this depending on country, location etc. That said, the opponents of DST seem to be making a stronger pushing politically at the moment (fashions change, where I am DST was overwhelming supported when first introduced and it still has relatively strong support although its opponents are more vocal nowadays). As a person who doesn't care one way or other, it seems I'm part of a rather small minority.