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Html + CSS + Javascript in 2022 is mostly what you need. Unless your job is going to require a framework, it’s really not necessary. Maybe I’m the old curmudg

Html + CSS + Javascript in 2022 is mostly what you need. Unless your job is going to require a framework, it’s really not necessary. Maybe I’m the old curmudgeon who is more concerned about putting out something that works and get customers/revenue quickly, than messing around with the latest Javascript toolchain to ensure it builds in Docker. You csn get a ton done with Javascript and Tailwind or DaisyUI. In fact almost 90% of what you need. And with the advent of new backend frameworks like Liveview that patch the dom, I believe things like Angular, React, Vue are on the dying list.

klabb3 4y ago
> Unless your job is going to require a framework, it’s really not necessary. Respectfully disagree. Mirroring your state in the DOM on your own is incredibly easy to get wrong. Doesn't matter if it's react, svelte or vue, any such framework will greatly simplify the UI parts. Aside from that though, I agree you can (and probably should) avoid most deps.
- cube00 4y ago
  I found using web components with Lit got me most of the way there to allowing individual components to self contain their state and redraw as required when state changed.
- jefftk 4y ago
  For prototyping and simple things, instead of mirroring my state in the DOM, I use the DOM to store state. Yes, it isn't quite as performant, but for this sort of work that doesn't usually matter.
  - _gabe_ 4y ago
    > For prototyping and simple things, instead of mirroring my state in the DOM, I use the DOM to store state. I find it funny that people think mirroring the DOM will magically make your web app performant. I've visited plenty of React sites that are sluggish, bloated, load slowly and a pain to use. I've also visited plenty of plain ol' HTML/CSS/JS sites that are snappy, load quickly, and fast enough. No framework or clever algorithm will save you from crappy code ;)
    - jefftk 4y ago
      I don't think it will magically make your code performant, but I've written things where using the DOM for state was pretty painfully inefficient. For example, multiple queries over a large amount of data where data is only represented as DOM notes. When working on small things and prototypes, though, this has been the exception, and I'm happy to mostly just use the DOM.
christophilus 4y ago
I didn’t quite follow the OP’s description of the app, but it sounds like the sort of app where you’ll end up having to do a lot of raw DOM manipulation / selection logic. I actually think vanilla JS / TS might be the best fit, here. You’ll probably be writing a lot of plain JS anyway based on my understanding of the description, so I’m not sure a framework buys you much. I highly recommend Tailwind for CSS and Playwright for testing the real UI.

klabb3 4y ago

> Unless your job is going to require a framework, it’s really not necessary. Respectfully disagree. Mirroring your state in the DOM on your own is incredibly easy to get wrong. Doesn't matter if it's react, svelte or vue, any such framework will greatly simplify the UI parts. Aside from that though, I agree you can (and probably should) avoid most deps.

cube00 4y ago
I found using web components with Lit got me most of the way there to allowing individual components to self contain their state and redraw as required when state changed.
jefftk 4y ago
For prototyping and simple things, instead of mirroring my state in the DOM, I use the DOM to store state. Yes, it isn't quite as performant, but for this sort of work that doesn't usually matter.
- _gabe_ 4y ago
  > For prototyping and simple things, instead of mirroring my state in the DOM, I use the DOM to store state. I find it funny that people think mirroring the DOM will magically make your web app performant. I've visited plenty of React sites that are sluggish, bloated, load slowly and a pain to use. I've also visited plenty of plain ol' HTML/CSS/JS sites that are snappy, load quickly, and fast enough. No framework or clever algorithm will save you from crappy code ;)
  - jefftk 4y ago
    I don't think it will magically make your code performant, but I've written things where using the DOM for state was pretty painfully inefficient. For example, multiple queries over a large amount of data where data is only represented as DOM notes. When working on small things and prototypes, though, this has been the exception, and I'm happy to mostly just use the DOM.

christophilus 4y ago

I didn’t quite follow the OP’s description of the app, but it sounds like the sort of app where you’ll end up having to do a lot of raw DOM manipulation / selection logic. I actually think vanilla JS / TS might be the best fit, here. You’ll probably be writing a lot of plain JS anyway based on my understanding of the description, so I’m not sure a framework buys you much. I highly recommend Tailwind for CSS and Playwright for testing the real UI.