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This makes gas plants look good. But it is not clear from the data if it is including all the pipeline infrastructure and LNG infra in the same way that it inc

This makes gas plants look good. But it is not clear from the data if it is including all the pipeline infrastructure and LNG infra in the same way that it includes all the mining for coal.

lbriner 4y ago
As fossil plants go, gas will be the cleanest and probably cheapest overall but it is not sustainable at scale. How long until the gas has run out or we are butchering the countryside to try and find hard to reach pockets? Can we create gas from anaerobic digestion? Sure. Can we do it to have an enormous amount of electrical power generated from it? Probably not. I suspect we might end up with some green gas plants to help with the dynamic load but we haven't built enough digestors yet to feed them.
- kergonath 4y ago
  > Can we create gas from anaerobic digestion? Sure. Can we do it to have an enormous amount of electrical power generated from it? Probably not. Biogas is great if it is generated from waste. The main issue is that farmer end up growing crops purely for biogas and bioethanol production and it displaces crops we actually need to avoid starving. Same as wood pellets, which are a great way of making use of waste, but terrible if we just cut trees instead. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/07/world/europe/eu-logging-wood-pellets.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/07/world/europe/...
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    A post-fossil economy will have a limited quantity of reduced carbon to work with. I suspect the waste stream will have many takers. Uses that can be substituted for (like fueling stationary power plants) will fall by the wayside.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Gas from waste is good because it's carbon negative (especially capturing methane that would otherwise be emitted is important). But as you say, it might be limited in scale. However, we can now economically synthesize hydrocarbons from electricity, so that's an option, though doing it (and gas-from-waste) for chemical feedstocks is probably the long term destination. Burning stuff is simply not very clean or efficient, so there's usually a better way to do whatever it is we're trying to do.
jeffbee 4y ago
It's quite obvious from the headline figure that the giant pads needed for exploration and production of gas, and the dumping of the drilling fluids, is not being counted against gas.

This makes gas plants look good. But it is not clear from the data if it is including all the pipeline infrastructure and LNG infra in the same way that it includes all the mining for coal.

lbriner 4y ago

As fossil plants go, gas will be the cleanest and probably cheapest overall but it is not sustainable at scale. How long until the gas has run out or we are butchering the countryside to try and find hard to reach pockets? Can we create gas from anaerobic digestion? Sure. Can we do it to have an enormous amount of electrical power generated from it? Probably not. I suspect we might end up with some green gas plants to help with the dynamic load but we haven't built enough digestors yet to feed them.

kergonath 4y ago
> Can we create gas from anaerobic digestion? Sure. Can we do it to have an enormous amount of electrical power generated from it? Probably not. Biogas is great if it is generated from waste. The main issue is that farmer end up growing crops purely for biogas and bioethanol production and it displaces crops we actually need to avoid starving. Same as wood pellets, which are a great way of making use of waste, but terrible if we just cut trees instead. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/07/world/europe/eu-logging-wood-pellets.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/07/world/europe/...
- pfdietz 4y ago
  A post-fossil economy will have a limited quantity of reduced carbon to work with. I suspect the waste stream will have many takers. Uses that can be substituted for (like fueling stationary power plants) will fall by the wayside.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Gas from waste is good because it's carbon negative (especially capturing methane that would otherwise be emitted is important). But as you say, it might be limited in scale. However, we can now economically synthesize hydrocarbons from electricity, so that's an option, though doing it (and gas-from-waste) for chemical feedstocks is probably the long term destination. Burning stuff is simply not very clean or efficient, so there's usually a better way to do whatever it is we're trying to do.

jeffbee 4y ago

It's quite obvious from the headline figure that the giant pads needed for exploration and production of gas, and the dumping of the drilling fluids, is not being counted against gas.