4 ms·

This really highlights one of the big advantages for nuclear on this crowded planet. I wonder how it would look if you factor in land that has become unusable

This really highlights one of the big advantages for nuclear on this crowded planet. I wonder how it would look if you factor in land that has become unusable (to humans) by disasters like Chernobyl and Fukushima, amortized appropriately of course. Perhaps this was accounted for already.

ncmncm 4y ago
It is always easy to promote your favorite by lying. the article author's favorite is obvious. Solar, of course, does not need to take up any land at all, as it easily coexists with existing uses, whether reservoirs and canals, pasture and cropland, or industrial rooftops. Wind, similarly. And a nuke, in the US, always fills a square mile. Then there are the uranium mines and tailings beds.
jrockway 4y ago
Is the planet crowded? Whenever I go on a road trip I certainly don't get that impression. There's 20 minutes of cities, an hour of outskirts, then 4 hours of nothing. People don't want to live that far away from everyone else, in general, but wind turbines and solar panels don't get as lonely. All you really have to worry about are resistive losses when bringing the electricity to the people, and that seems very manageable. It's also a problem with nuclear because nobody really wants to live next door to a nuclear power plant. One "hold my beer!" away from being the next "Damn Interesting" article in the lost cities category.
- elevaet 4y ago
  I mean "crowded" is relative, but yeah I'd say we're crowding the planet. There's precious little wilderness left [1]. Livestock outweighs wild mammals by a factor of 10:1 [2]. The chicken is the most common bird, 15x the runner up [3]. Flying insects are down 75% or more since ~1990 [4]. The reefs are dying, we're dumping CO2 into the atmosphere and cooking the planet, there's plastic getting everywhere in the ocean. Maybe "crowded" is a loaded term and I can see why someone might object when they drive through the countryside and all they can see is miles of roads and fields, but we're stripping the planet of biodiversity, and gobbling all the resources we can. We're shifting the planet is shifting from a biological system to an industrial one. It's not all bad, and at heart I really do believe humans are the most precious creature here, but we're shitting the bed and spoiling our own cradle. Lately, nuclear has started looking like a necessary tool if we're going to have any chance at tackling climate change. 1. https://www.science.org/content/article/just-19-earth-s-land-still-wild-analysis-suggests https://www.science.org/content/article/just-19-earth-s-land... 2. https://ourworldindata.org/life-on-earth https://ourworldindata.org/life-on-earth 3. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-populous-bird-species-in-the-world.html https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-populous-bird-speci... 4. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0185809 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
ulfw 4y ago
What crowded planet? It's not always so easy to generalize things. We have huge deserts that can't sustain human life properly (lack of water sources). Good for solar power plants though. I'd much rather have, say, Australian cities ran with solar power from huge installations in the centre of the country than building nuclear plants right next to Sydney or Melbourne. Of course other countries like Singapore wouldn't have that option. We can't generalize the whole planet ("so crowded").
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Singapore is an interesting choice to single out. Singapore is very aggressively installing GW-scale "floatovoltaics", solar floating on their abundant water resources. This is very smart, as the panels stay cool so more efficient, and last much longer. Nobody knows exactly how much longer, because there hasn't been time to find out yet.
  - elihu 4y ago
    Interesting. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/singapore-unveils-one-worlds-biggest-floating-solar-panel-farms-2021-07-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/singapore-unveils-on... Article describes a 111.2 acre installation. That's not huge, but it's not trivially small either.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      Article is from 2021. It ends with "Currently, there are four other floating solar panel projects underway in Singapore." Of course more projects may have been initiated since then.

ncmncm 4y ago

It is always easy to promote your favorite by lying. the article author's favorite is obvious. Solar, of course, does not need to take up any land at all, as it easily coexists with existing uses, whether reservoirs and canals, pasture and cropland, or industrial rooftops. Wind, similarly. And a nuke, in the US, always fills a square mile. Then there are the uranium mines and tailings beds.

jrockway 4y ago

Is the planet crowded? Whenever I go on a road trip I certainly don't get that impression. There's 20 minutes of cities, an hour of outskirts, then 4 hours of nothing. People don't want to live that far away from everyone else, in general, but wind turbines and solar panels don't get as lonely. All you really have to worry about are resistive losses when bringing the electricity to the people, and that seems very manageable. It's also a problem with nuclear because nobody really wants to live next door to a nuclear power plant. One "hold my beer!" away from being the next "Damn Interesting" article in the lost cities category.

elevaet 4y ago
I mean "crowded" is relative, but yeah I'd say we're crowding the planet. There's precious little wilderness left [1]. Livestock outweighs wild mammals by a factor of 10:1 [2]. The chicken is the most common bird, 15x the runner up [3]. Flying insects are down 75% or more since ~1990 [4]. The reefs are dying, we're dumping CO2 into the atmosphere and cooking the planet, there's plastic getting everywhere in the ocean. Maybe "crowded" is a loaded term and I can see why someone might object when they drive through the countryside and all they can see is miles of roads and fields, but we're stripping the planet of biodiversity, and gobbling all the resources we can. We're shifting the planet is shifting from a biological system to an industrial one. It's not all bad, and at heart I really do believe humans are the most precious creature here, but we're shitting the bed and spoiling our own cradle. Lately, nuclear has started looking like a necessary tool if we're going to have any chance at tackling climate change. 1. https://www.science.org/content/article/just-19-earth-s-land-still-wild-analysis-suggests https://www.science.org/content/article/just-19-earth-s-land... 2. https://ourworldindata.org/life-on-earth https://ourworldindata.org/life-on-earth 3. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-populous-bird-species-in-the-world.html https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-populous-bird-speci... 4. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0185809 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

ulfw 4y ago

What crowded planet? It's not always so easy to generalize things. We have huge deserts that can't sustain human life properly (lack of water sources). Good for solar power plants though. I'd much rather have, say, Australian cities ran with solar power from huge installations in the centre of the country than building nuclear plants right next to Sydney or Melbourne. Of course other countries like Singapore wouldn't have that option. We can't generalize the whole planet ("so crowded").

ncmncm 4y ago
Singapore is an interesting choice to single out. Singapore is very aggressively installing GW-scale "floatovoltaics", solar floating on their abundant water resources. This is very smart, as the panels stay cool so more efficient, and last much longer. Nobody knows exactly how much longer, because there hasn't been time to find out yet.
- elihu 4y ago
  Interesting. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/singapore-unveils-one-worlds-biggest-floating-solar-panel-farms-2021-07-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/singapore-unveils-on... Article describes a 111.2 acre installation. That's not huge, but it's not trivially small either.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    Article is from 2021. It ends with "Currently, there are four other floating solar panel projects underway in Singapore." Of course more projects may have been initiated since then.