7 ms·

maybe less EV's, and more improved public transportation?

ekianjo 4y ago
> more improved public transportation? always this ignorant in every thread like that. most people dont live in huge city centers where public transportation is abundant.
- dayjaby 4y ago
  Nothing ignorant here, especially considering the fact that it's the cities which are brimful of cars.
  - preommr 4y ago
    It is a tiring comment given that they're not mutually exclusive and that the forms of public transport that are mutually exclusive like railways are horribly expensive to the point that they're almost not viable. Bay area rail costs are like 2-3 billion per mile. The areas where these kinds of public transport solutions are most effective are also where it's the most expensive and most likely to face extreme friction.
    - nortonham 4y ago
      they may not be mutually exclusive. Doesn't change the fact that US public transportation and needs to be updated, and more new public transport built. We have the world's biggest "defense" budget by some margin, but we can't improve our infrastructure?
- torginus 4y ago
  56% of the world population lives in cities. While not a perfect measure, it's a decent ballpark for the amount of folks who could feasibly use public transport.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    And even the biggest cities with the best public transportation systems have a low coverage in terms of area. This is why this is such an ignorant comment.
- nortonham 4y ago
  doesn't mean our public transportation in cities and between cities here in the US can't be improved. In fact, it should be if we are to reduce our dependency on cars, which we have to do if for the environment and our own well being.
toiletfuneral 4y ago
Pxtl 4y ago
This. The EV revolution isn't here to save the world, it's here to save the automobile industry. LRTs with overhead catenaries are electric vehicles without batteries. Let's build more of those.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dontlaugh 4y ago
  Trolley buses with small batteries are great too. They mostly use the grid, but are able to go a few km without in case of disruption.
  - Pxtl 4y ago
    One neat tech is the "capabus" which is a bus with a supercapacitor that has a range of only a few miles but charges wirelessly near-instantly. So instead of catenaries you put chargers around the route at major stops.
matheusmoreira 4y ago
No thanks. I'd rather have my own vehicle. Much more convenient.
- kelnos 4y ago
  That's fine, I guess, but I think plenty of people would get rid of their car if public transit was more ubiquitous, reliable, and convenient. Even people (like myself) who would choose to still have a car in that scenario, we might use the car less often, which would reduce wear and tear on it (thus increasing the length of its useful life). That would also serve to reduce demand for new vehicles.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    Sure. Good public transportation is always desirable. I just don't want it to be an argument against electric cars which would be a huge improvement.
    - sanxiyn 4y ago
      Since money is fungible, argument for good public transportation is argument against electric car subsidy and vice versa, whether you like it or not. Like, we could scrap electric car subsidy and use money on public transportation instead. And I argue we should: at the moment, electric car subsidy is stupid, people are in line to buy electric cars, there is no need for subsidy.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  I'd rather have a private jet, too, but I don't think my personal desires are the only salient factor here.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    If desires aren't a factor, they should be. I'm willing to spend money on a car that I can charge at home like a smartphone. It would reduce my fuel costs to zero because I have a lot of solar panels. I'll even install more solar panels if necessary. The so called free market needs to make it happen. If there's a lithium shortage, then mine more.
switchbak 4y ago
I'd settle for subsidized ebikes and safer bike lanes. Not for everyone obviously, but in my world that would get a lot more people out of their cars. Good public transit would be great too though.
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  I'm about to move to a bikable area and I am planning to do an ebike conversion. I am suuuper excited to finally have an electric vehicle, and the actual energy usage is super low! A 0.9 kWh pack will take you 60 miles and costs ten cents to fill up. People talk about electric cars versus trains but subsidized ebikes are something we can do now and would make a huge difference! Just the idea that I can ebike to the BART station, hop on the train and end up all over the bay, ebike where I need to go and get back all for a few dollars is exciting.
  - supertrope 4y ago
    E-Bikes still depend on municipal bike infrastructure which cannot be individually purchased. Re-allocation of on-street parking to protected bike lanes, traffic calming, legalization of denser housing has to happen at the public policy level.
    - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
      Yes absolutely! I am really pleased to find that the Bay Area governments have done a lot of work there, and I found that they have active plans to continue this build out. But I guess what I am saying is they are much more energy efficient than electric cars, and the infrastructure requirements are way simpler than trains. By the way I just found the mode on Google Maps that highlights bike friendly roads and it is cool to explore. https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8149208,-122.2338056,13.13z/data=!5m2!1e4!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8149208,-122.2338056,13.13z/... You can read more about the long term plans to better support bike paths in the Bay Area on the Plan Bay Area 2050. https://www.planbayarea.org/ https://www.planbayarea.org/ For example they are going to expand the bike path on the Bay Bridge that currently goes from Oakland to Treasure Island so that it connects all the way to San Francisco: https://mtc.ca.gov/planning/transportation/bicycle-pedestrian-micromobility/bay-skyway https://mtc.ca.gov/planning/transportation/bicycle-pedestria... I just thought all that was neat. Anyway you are totally right. I just think this stuff is simpler than trains to implement so it is important to consider, though I fully support trains too! A good plan should include both. Also I am not saying we should leave this up to individuals. But for example we have seen huge subsidies for electric cars while subsidies for ebikes have been lacking, with some movement finally towards that direction. I'm in favor of government plans that emphasize the green value of ebikes in addition to trains and electric cars.
mesarvagya 4y ago
This should be the way. Make really connected public transportation and discourage private vehicle ownership. This is the only way to beat global car emissions and climate change.
- TotoHorner 4y ago
  - sofixa 4y ago
    My grandparents live in a small village (maybe a few hundred inhabitants, but most of them are old people so don't know how many are still alive) with a regular train connection to the nearby "big city" (27k inhabitants). And that's in the poorest country in the EU. Park and ride is a popular way to bridge very low density with public transit.
    - asdff 4y ago
      Many rural american towns used to be like this too. Then the passenger rail stations were raised and streetcar tracks torn out in most places after WW2 if not sooner.
    - nec4b 4y ago
      What about people in the neighboring village without a train connection?
  - asdff 4y ago
    Do rural people need to take a v8 for each and every trip they take in life from their home?
dzhiurgis 4y ago
And power storage for solar panels..? France has buses that quick charge at every second stop with batteries size of Tesla (70 kwh IIRC).

> more improved public transportation? always this ignorant in every thread like that. most people dont live in huge city centers where public transportation is abundant.

dayjaby 4y ago
Nothing ignorant here, especially considering the fact that it's the cities which are brimful of cars.
- preommr 4y ago
  It is a tiring comment given that they're not mutually exclusive and that the forms of public transport that are mutually exclusive like railways are horribly expensive to the point that they're almost not viable. Bay area rail costs are like 2-3 billion per mile. The areas where these kinds of public transport solutions are most effective are also where it's the most expensive and most likely to face extreme friction.
  - nortonham 4y ago
    they may not be mutually exclusive. Doesn't change the fact that US public transportation and needs to be updated, and more new public transport built. We have the world's biggest "defense" budget by some margin, but we can't improve our infrastructure?
torginus 4y ago
56% of the world population lives in cities. While not a perfect measure, it's a decent ballpark for the amount of folks who could feasibly use public transport.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  And even the biggest cities with the best public transportation systems have a low coverage in terms of area. This is why this is such an ignorant comment.
nortonham 4y ago
doesn't mean our public transportation in cities and between cities here in the US can't be improved. In fact, it should be if we are to reduce our dependency on cars, which we have to do if for the environment and our own well being.

toiletfuneral 4y ago

Pxtl 4y ago

This. The EV revolution isn't here to save the world, it's here to save the automobile industry. LRTs with overhead catenaries are electric vehicles without batteries. Let's build more of those.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dontlaugh 4y ago
Trolley buses with small batteries are great too. They mostly use the grid, but are able to go a few km without in case of disruption.
- Pxtl 4y ago
  One neat tech is the "capabus" which is a bus with a supercapacitor that has a range of only a few miles but charges wirelessly near-instantly. So instead of catenaries you put chargers around the route at major stops.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

No thanks. I'd rather have my own vehicle. Much more convenient.

kelnos 4y ago
That's fine, I guess, but I think plenty of people would get rid of their car if public transit was more ubiquitous, reliable, and convenient. Even people (like myself) who would choose to still have a car in that scenario, we might use the car less often, which would reduce wear and tear on it (thus increasing the length of its useful life). That would also serve to reduce demand for new vehicles.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  Sure. Good public transportation is always desirable. I just don't want it to be an argument against electric cars which would be a huge improvement.
  - sanxiyn 4y ago
    Since money is fungible, argument for good public transportation is argument against electric car subsidy and vice versa, whether you like it or not. Like, we could scrap electric car subsidy and use money on public transportation instead. And I argue we should: at the moment, electric car subsidy is stupid, people are in line to buy electric cars, there is no need for subsidy.
bigDinosaur 4y ago
I'd rather have a private jet, too, but I don't think my personal desires are the only salient factor here.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  If desires aren't a factor, they should be. I'm willing to spend money on a car that I can charge at home like a smartphone. It would reduce my fuel costs to zero because I have a lot of solar panels. I'll even install more solar panels if necessary. The so called free market needs to make it happen. If there's a lithium shortage, then mine more.

switchbak 4y ago

I'd settle for subsidized ebikes and safer bike lanes. Not for everyone obviously, but in my world that would get a lot more people out of their cars. Good public transit would be great too though.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago
I'm about to move to a bikable area and I am planning to do an ebike conversion. I am suuuper excited to finally have an electric vehicle, and the actual energy usage is super low! A 0.9 kWh pack will take you 60 miles and costs ten cents to fill up. People talk about electric cars versus trains but subsidized ebikes are something we can do now and would make a huge difference! Just the idea that I can ebike to the BART station, hop on the train and end up all over the bay, ebike where I need to go and get back all for a few dollars is exciting.
- supertrope 4y ago
  E-Bikes still depend on municipal bike infrastructure which cannot be individually purchased. Re-allocation of on-street parking to protected bike lanes, traffic calming, legalization of denser housing has to happen at the public policy level.
  - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
    Yes absolutely! I am really pleased to find that the Bay Area governments have done a lot of work there, and I found that they have active plans to continue this build out. But I guess what I am saying is they are much more energy efficient than electric cars, and the infrastructure requirements are way simpler than trains. By the way I just found the mode on Google Maps that highlights bike friendly roads and it is cool to explore. https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8149208,-122.2338056,13.13z/data=!5m2!1e4!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8149208,-122.2338056,13.13z/... You can read more about the long term plans to better support bike paths in the Bay Area on the Plan Bay Area 2050. https://www.planbayarea.org/ https://www.planbayarea.org/ For example they are going to expand the bike path on the Bay Bridge that currently goes from Oakland to Treasure Island so that it connects all the way to San Francisco: https://mtc.ca.gov/planning/transportation/bicycle-pedestrian-micromobility/bay-skyway https://mtc.ca.gov/planning/transportation/bicycle-pedestria... I just thought all that was neat. Anyway you are totally right. I just think this stuff is simpler than trains to implement so it is important to consider, though I fully support trains too! A good plan should include both. Also I am not saying we should leave this up to individuals. But for example we have seen huge subsidies for electric cars while subsidies for ebikes have been lacking, with some movement finally towards that direction. I'm in favor of government plans that emphasize the green value of ebikes in addition to trains and electric cars.

mesarvagya 4y ago

This should be the way. Make really connected public transportation and discourage private vehicle ownership. This is the only way to beat global car emissions and climate change.

TotoHorner 4y ago
- sofixa 4y ago
  My grandparents live in a small village (maybe a few hundred inhabitants, but most of them are old people so don't know how many are still alive) with a regular train connection to the nearby "big city" (27k inhabitants). And that's in the poorest country in the EU. Park and ride is a popular way to bridge very low density with public transit.
  - asdff 4y ago
    Many rural american towns used to be like this too. Then the passenger rail stations were raised and streetcar tracks torn out in most places after WW2 if not sooner.
  - nec4b 4y ago
    What about people in the neighboring village without a train connection?
- asdff 4y ago
  Do rural people need to take a v8 for each and every trip they take in life from their home?

dzhiurgis 4y ago

And power storage for solar panels..? France has buses that quick charge at every second stop with batteries size of Tesla (70 kwh IIRC).