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> Consider all those hundreds of thousands of people that tramp thousands of miles just for a chance to get into the US? What do they know that you don't, or ar

> Consider all those hundreds of thousands of people that tramp thousands of miles just for a chance to get into the US? What do they know that you don't, or are they just fools? This feels like a strawman, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that it’s asked sincerely. Nothing I said was intended to suggest that the disparity across borders wouldn’t justify their journey. Many making that journey certainly do know something I do not, and I wouldn’t call anyone a fool for it. I’d add that my own response to myself below might better address this than the comment you’re responding to. > Why is there not an exodus of hundreds of thousands of poor Americans tramping to other countries? Last I checked, more people cross the southern US border to emigrate out of the US in recent years. Not sure what the numbers are, not going to dig them up to win at being right, I just think it bears mentioning that people migrate for a wide variety of reasons and I’ll leave it at that. > Much of that occurred long before government social programs, high taxes, unions, anti-trust, etc. Take a look at things like height statistics for Americans throughout the 19th century. Height statistics are a good proxy for standard of living - people don't grow tall if they are malnourished as children. Alright, I’ll grant that people got taller around the same time they were likely to die in factory fires. I won’t grant that being taller is an aspiration I care about as much as not dying in factory fires. > Amazon has scores of millions of customers. They wouldn't be shopping at Amazon if Amazon was cheating them. > Amazon turnover is such that the average employee works less than a year. This is incongruent with being forced to work there at subhuman conditions. I’m not going to bother responding to these paragraphs, because I don’t understand your reasoning, other than I don’t think they say what I think you think they say.

WalterBright 4y ago
I don't believe that several hundred thousand people migrate out of the US every year. Such would certainly make the news. Yes, there are ex pats, but not many. What would you say the number of people dying in factory fires were? Since life expectancy went steadily up during the 19th century, it doesn't seem like factory fires had a worse effect than the positive effect of better nutrition, sanitation, housing, etc. > I’m not going to bother responding to these paragraphs Those numbers are easily findable via google. If they don't fit the thesis that Amazon is a hellhole for workers and bad for customers, oh well. The migrants that come here by the hundreds of thousands also are not turning around and running away once they discover how awful it is here.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  - MoreSEMI 4y ago
    >More than zero is too many. I don’t think this is the correct way to look at it. That may seem harsh but humans certainly never have nor ever will think that way. For example, what is the risk of death associated with climbing up the tree to get the apple. How much are people willing to pay to buy a safer car? There will always be a tail risk. Mitigating the risk will eventually not be worth the cost, either it terms of resources or human years spent on reducing the risk. A much more recent salient example is that most societies on earth have decided that the risk from dying from COVID is worth it to continue living a normal life. If we applied your standard, we should never leave our house and do anything constituting a normal life.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    The article specifically says they are "Mexicans" moving to Mexico. > You accept forced labor as part of the “free market” Only in your imagination. > some acceptable level of people dying in fires locked in factories at work You were comparing the risk of that against the risk of a short life from malnutrition. > enslaved Amazon's workers are not enslaved.
    - eyelidlessness 4y ago
      [flagged]

WalterBright 4y ago

I don't believe that several hundred thousand people migrate out of the US every year. Such would certainly make the news. Yes, there are ex pats, but not many. What would you say the number of people dying in factory fires were? Since life expectancy went steadily up during the 19th century, it doesn't seem like factory fires had a worse effect than the positive effect of better nutrition, sanitation, housing, etc. > I’m not going to bother responding to these paragraphs Those numbers are easily findable via google. If they don't fit the thesis that Amazon is a hellhole for workers and bad for customers, oh well. The migrants that come here by the hundreds of thousands also are not turning around and running away once they discover how awful it is here.

eyelidlessness 4y ago
- MoreSEMI 4y ago
  >More than zero is too many. I don’t think this is the correct way to look at it. That may seem harsh but humans certainly never have nor ever will think that way. For example, what is the risk of death associated with climbing up the tree to get the apple. How much are people willing to pay to buy a safer car? There will always be a tail risk. Mitigating the risk will eventually not be worth the cost, either it terms of resources or human years spent on reducing the risk. A much more recent salient example is that most societies on earth have decided that the risk from dying from COVID is worth it to continue living a normal life. If we applied your standard, we should never leave our house and do anything constituting a normal life.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  The article specifically says they are "Mexicans" moving to Mexico. > You accept forced labor as part of the “free market” Only in your imagination. > some acceptable level of people dying in fires locked in factories at work You were comparing the risk of that against the risk of a short life from malnutrition. > enslaved Amazon's workers are not enslaved.
  - eyelidlessness 4y ago
    [flagged]