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The problem is that there has been over a century and a half of histrionic propaganda within the United States asserting that government can’t do anything right

The problem is that there has been over a century and a half of histrionic propaganda within the United States asserting that government can’t do anything right, government and regulation are the root of all societal problems, the only proper role for government is to preserve property rights, and so on, starting around the late 1840s for some reason. So there have been multiple generations of Americans who have marinated in this their entire lives, resulting in large populations who assume more local control is always better, people only deserve what they can afford themselves individually, and so on—and entire societal systems built atop the ensuing systematic deprivation. At the same time, there’s also an almost North Korean degree of jingoistic “we’re the pinnacle of human achievement” nationalism so any change to the status quo is opposed even by those who would directly benefit because they don’t really believe it’s possible for things to be any better. After all, if they could be, they would be, because We’re The Best! So if things are bad, well, they’re worse everywhere else so quit complaining. This is why Americans get such culture shock going elsewhere in the world. They see that others can actually have a society that’s just as good or better, and they have to figure out how to integrate that into their worldview. TL;DR: Many things in the US stay as bad as they do because multiple generations have been brainwashed into thinking they’re the best they can be.

AlbertCory 4y ago
So naturally, when people prefer a certain policy, it must be because they've been "marinated" in it, and "brainwashed"? And it's "an almost North Korean degree of jingoistic .. nationalism"? It can't be that they made up their own minds? You've just illustrated why so many people dislike "the elites". The public are adults. They decide what's in their interests and what isn't, even if it isn't what you think it should be.
- noasaservice 4y ago
  > And it's "an almost North Korean degree of jingoistic .. nationalism"? It can't be that they made up their own minds? In the fifth grade, I was sent home as punishment for not saying the "Pledge of Allegiance" in public school. It's always been about brainwashing. Always has. > You've just illustrated why so many people dislike "the elites". The public are adults. They decide what's in their interests and what isn't, even if it isn't what you think it should be. I've seen what an adult is. "You've been alive for 18 years". That's it. No knowledge checks. No requirement of anything, really. And your response cements this pervasive idea that "My ignorant opinion is worth just as much as your well studied scientific opinion". That's what our society is facing right now, on every public forum.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    Way to double down on the elitism. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Your "well studied scientific opinion" is nothing more than propaganda of a more refined form. Or at least it flatters you to call it "refined."
    - dang 4y ago
      Please don't post in the flamewar style, and please edit swipes out of your comments here. We've had to ask you this before. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - em-bee 4y ago
    I've seen what an adult is. "You've been alive for 18 years". That's it. No knowledge checks. No requirement of anything, really. the most striking experience of this i was able to observe in US boy scouts. there were two boys of similar age who were close friends, until one of them turned 18. he then was made an assistant scout master. some time later the two friends had a falling out because the younger one did not respect his older friend as a leader. it's not that he wasn't qualified as a leader. they probably both were, but that birthday made one be the leader of the other, instead of allowing them to remain peers.
  - dang 4y ago
    Please don't post in the flamewar style, and please edit swipes out of your comments here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
underwater 4y ago
This aligns with my lived experience where many smart, well educated, affluent Americans I met had a shockingly limited understanding of how things work in other parts of the world.
landemva 4y ago
Fluoride propaganda has put fluoride into drinking water in most USA water systems, which are locally controlled. Interesting how Europe mostly does not fluoridate tap water.
- jws 4y ago
  As usual, Europe is complicated… Some of Europe fluoridates tap water. Much of Europe has adequate fluoride levels naturally. Some countries supply fluoride in table salt instead of water. Some have insufficient natural fluoride levels and do nothing. Some have too much fluoride naturally in their water.
devwastaken 4y ago
If water utilities were private, they would be significantly more accountable for their actions. Both criminally and civilly. DA's don't prosecute their own, because that's career suicide. City council and employees have qualified immunity. We give government special protections that prevent public accountability because it's expected that democracy effectively puts competent people into office. We are continually proving this to be wrong. Our election and powers structure is not accurate to the voter base. Most of these positions go in challenged, because people can't quit their job to fill a government role. Further, private companies can't keep passing the ball like governments do. They can't pull from other funds, and they have contracted duties. Even better if the company is a co-op.
- DanBC 4y ago
  > If water utilities were private, they would be significantly more accountable for their actions. Both criminally and civilly. Tricky to swim in English rivers or beaches at the moment because they're covered in human shit. We have privatised water companies, and there's a good argument that privatisation made it worse. People on HN think privatisation solves everything, despite the countless examples that show otherwise.
ralph84 4y ago
The US has by far the highest number of immigrants, so apparently it’s not just Americans who’ve been “brainwashed.”
- CaptainZapp 4y ago
  Not by a long shot. This statement is outright wrong. See this table[0] for details. [0] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-immigration-by-country-as-a-percentage-of-the-population/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-immigration-by-co...
  - ralph84 4y ago
    I said number of immigrants not percentage of population. There are at least 50 million immigrants living in the US.
    - CaptainZapp 4y ago
      Fair enough. Apologies for misinterpreting you.

AlbertCory 4y ago

So naturally, when people prefer a certain policy, it must be because they've been "marinated" in it, and "brainwashed"? And it's "an almost North Korean degree of jingoistic .. nationalism"? It can't be that they made up their own minds? You've just illustrated why so many people dislike "the elites". The public are adults. They decide what's in their interests and what isn't, even if it isn't what you think it should be.

noasaservice 4y ago
> And it's "an almost North Korean degree of jingoistic .. nationalism"? It can't be that they made up their own minds? In the fifth grade, I was sent home as punishment for not saying the "Pledge of Allegiance" in public school. It's always been about brainwashing. Always has. > You've just illustrated why so many people dislike "the elites". The public are adults. They decide what's in their interests and what isn't, even if it isn't what you think it should be. I've seen what an adult is. "You've been alive for 18 years". That's it. No knowledge checks. No requirement of anything, really. And your response cements this pervasive idea that "My ignorant opinion is worth just as much as your well studied scientific opinion". That's what our society is facing right now, on every public forum.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  Way to double down on the elitism. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Your "well studied scientific opinion" is nothing more than propaganda of a more refined form. Or at least it flatters you to call it "refined."
  - dang 4y ago
    Please don't post in the flamewar style, and please edit swipes out of your comments here. We've had to ask you this before. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- em-bee 4y ago
  I've seen what an adult is. "You've been alive for 18 years". That's it. No knowledge checks. No requirement of anything, really. the most striking experience of this i was able to observe in US boy scouts. there were two boys of similar age who were close friends, until one of them turned 18. he then was made an assistant scout master. some time later the two friends had a falling out because the younger one did not respect his older friend as a leader. it's not that he wasn't qualified as a leader. they probably both were, but that birthday made one be the leader of the other, instead of allowing them to remain peers.
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't post in the flamewar style, and please edit swipes out of your comments here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

underwater 4y ago

This aligns with my lived experience where many smart, well educated, affluent Americans I met had a shockingly limited understanding of how things work in other parts of the world.

landemva 4y ago

Fluoride propaganda has put fluoride into drinking water in most USA water systems, which are locally controlled. Interesting how Europe mostly does not fluoridate tap water.

jws 4y ago
As usual, Europe is complicated… Some of Europe fluoridates tap water. Much of Europe has adequate fluoride levels naturally. Some countries supply fluoride in table salt instead of water. Some have insufficient natural fluoride levels and do nothing. Some have too much fluoride naturally in their water.

devwastaken 4y ago

If water utilities were private, they would be significantly more accountable for their actions. Both criminally and civilly. DA's don't prosecute their own, because that's career suicide. City council and employees have qualified immunity. We give government special protections that prevent public accountability because it's expected that democracy effectively puts competent people into office. We are continually proving this to be wrong. Our election and powers structure is not accurate to the voter base. Most of these positions go in challenged, because people can't quit their job to fill a government role. Further, private companies can't keep passing the ball like governments do. They can't pull from other funds, and they have contracted duties. Even better if the company is a co-op.

DanBC 4y ago
> If water utilities were private, they would be significantly more accountable for their actions. Both criminally and civilly. Tricky to swim in English rivers or beaches at the moment because they're covered in human shit. We have privatised water companies, and there's a good argument that privatisation made it worse. People on HN think privatisation solves everything, despite the countless examples that show otherwise.

ralph84 4y ago

The US has by far the highest number of immigrants, so apparently it’s not just Americans who’ve been “brainwashed.”

CaptainZapp 4y ago
Not by a long shot. This statement is outright wrong. See this table[0] for details. [0] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-immigration-by-country-as-a-percentage-of-the-population/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/mapped-immigration-by-co...
- ralph84 4y ago
  I said number of immigrants not percentage of population. There are at least 50 million immigrants living in the US.
  - CaptainZapp 4y ago
    Fair enough. Apologies for misinterpreting you.