4 ms·

What I still don't get is: Wouldn't it be worth it for the EU to fix the silly GDPR cookie requirements? They burden sites & users with billions of extra meani

by gojomo 4y ago

What I still don't get is: Wouldn't it be worth it for the EU to fix the silly GDPR cookie requirements? They burden sites & users with billions of extra meaningless interactions every month for no net gain in privacy – and possibly a net loss, by training users to habitually dismiss such popups without thought.

acchow 4y ago
The cookie warnings feels a lot like the Prop 65 warning of the internet
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
They impose no burden if you make everything opt in at the point it's required rather than on first page load. Every cookie notice is there by choice because the site operator doesn't care about smooth UX.
- gojomo 4y ago
  So, in a theoretical world that doesn't exist, where every website does extra engineering to defer a disclosure until later, it's less of a burden. (But still a burden at that later point.) Can you point out a few prominent sites using your preferred approach, so I'm sure what you mean? In our actual world, the disclosure/opt-in requirement is a major burden, because essentially all of the practicioner/implementers, and the specialist firms now powering disclosure popups, have decided their best way to comply is the first-load pop-up mess we've got now. (That's likely because: there's immense value in being able to track sessions-of-use, for adjusting design, even before any commerce or specific-identity info is disclosed. And that value flows not just to the websites: it helps adjust content/UI for the users, as well.) Given the actual, observed state-of-the-world, for years now, it would make more sense for the singlular governing entity that created the problem – the EU – to fix this, rather than the millions of diverse websites worldwide. At the very least, the EU could waive the opt-in requirements for any browser which offers some baseline of user-controlled cookie-blocking – which the ~half-dozen relevant browser engines could easily add. That'd be a far more rational, low total compliance cost, high user-agency solution. Competition & user self-help had practically wiped annoying modal popups from the web. Then the EU's clumsy, oblivious regulators brought them back.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    > track sessions-of-use, for adjusting design, even before any commerce or specific-identity info is disclosed. And that value flows not just to the websites: it helps adjust content/UI for the users, as well. Tracking (regardless of whether cookies or other methods are used - the dumb idea that GDPR only cares about cookies needs to die) for essential purposes such as maintaining state for shopping carts/user preferences/etc does not require disclosure nor consent.
    - gojomo 4y ago
      That essentially every professionally-developed website I visit seems to have concluded differently makes me doubt your analysis - or, if your analysis is technically true, that that analysis is relevant to real websites' needs.
paulmd 4y ago
agree, cookie popups should just be banned entirely, sites should be required to default to the minimal cookies required to implement the site's functionality, and users can opt-in to analytics if they want
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  That's literally what the regulation stipulates. The vast majority of consent pop-ups you see are not compliant. The problem is a lack of enforcement so widespread that entire businesses now specialize (and thrive!) in providing non-compliant consent flows as a service.

by gojomo 4y ago

acchow 4y ago

The cookie warnings feels a lot like the Prop 65 warning of the internet

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago

They impose no burden if you make everything opt in at the point it's required rather than on first page load. Every cookie notice is there by choice because the site operator doesn't care about smooth UX.

gojomo 4y ago
So, in a theoretical world that doesn't exist, where every website does extra engineering to defer a disclosure until later, it's less of a burden. (But still a burden at that later point.) Can you point out a few prominent sites using your preferred approach, so I'm sure what you mean? In our actual world, the disclosure/opt-in requirement is a major burden, because essentially all of the practicioner/implementers, and the specialist firms now powering disclosure popups, have decided their best way to comply is the first-load pop-up mess we've got now. (That's likely because: there's immense value in being able to track sessions-of-use, for adjusting design, even before any commerce or specific-identity info is disclosed. And that value flows not just to the websites: it helps adjust content/UI for the users, as well.) Given the actual, observed state-of-the-world, for years now, it would make more sense for the singlular governing entity that created the problem – the EU – to fix this, rather than the millions of diverse websites worldwide. At the very least, the EU could waive the opt-in requirements for any browser which offers some baseline of user-controlled cookie-blocking – which the ~half-dozen relevant browser engines could easily add. That'd be a far more rational, low total compliance cost, high user-agency solution. Competition & user self-help had practically wiped annoying modal popups from the web. Then the EU's clumsy, oblivious regulators brought them back.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  > track sessions-of-use, for adjusting design, even before any commerce or specific-identity info is disclosed. And that value flows not just to the websites: it helps adjust content/UI for the users, as well. Tracking (regardless of whether cookies or other methods are used - the dumb idea that GDPR only cares about cookies needs to die) for essential purposes such as maintaining state for shopping carts/user preferences/etc does not require disclosure nor consent.
  - gojomo 4y ago
    That essentially every professionally-developed website I visit seems to have concluded differently makes me doubt your analysis - or, if your analysis is technically true, that that analysis is relevant to real websites' needs.

paulmd 4y ago

agree, cookie popups should just be banned entirely, sites should be required to default to the minimal cookies required to implement the site's functionality, and users can opt-in to analytics if they want

Nextgrid 4y ago
That's literally what the regulation stipulates. The vast majority of consent pop-ups you see are not compliant. The problem is a lack of enforcement so widespread that entire businesses now specialize (and thrive!) in providing non-compliant consent flows as a service.