5 ms·

Guns bought through credit cards in the US will now be trackable

8 points by vinni2 4y ago

newaccount2021 4y ago
LinuxBender 4y ago
Anecdotally I have always paid cash. I show my ID to get the military veteran discount but they don't write anything down. I would be curious if the online ammo sites will give people warnings. I also assume the firearm youtubers will be talking about this.
rolph 4y ago
just read through it. it seems to be about deobfusicating a firearms purchase by making the credit purchase classification a bit more granular, and descriptive of such purchases, rather than [sporting goods store]. also adds flags for suspicious purchases, so how you conduct yourself will be reflected as well.
- elmerfud 4y ago
  Which is kind of silly to add flags for suspicious purchases. Any firearms transfer at a store with an FFL if he is suspicious of the transaction should not sell it or do the transfer. There are already laws on the books to prosecute FFL transfers when you should have known or reasonably known the person you were transferring it to wasn't eligible to have the gun. The federal government is banned by law from compiling a firearms owner's database. This is just a back door to do that. Very likely will accomplish zero reduction in crime or straw purchases. Because when you're buying a gun to commit a crime or for someone else it's generally a few hundred dollars because it's the cheapest gun you can get easy to pay in cash with. This is an owner's database for expensive guns that are not used in crimes. Because those guns are more difficult to pay in cash with for example the last two guns I purchased were $10,000 and $17,000. Clearly these are the weapons that are used in committing crimes.
  - rolph 4y ago
    im speculating, there is a class of person that has no legal reason, to be prohibited, but asks things like "will this defeat a bulletproof vest ?". i think this is where the head space is with putting flags on.
    - LinuxBender 4y ago
      AFAIK there are only a handful states where black/silver tip ammo is not legal to sell and/or requires a special permit. [1][2] Most can still sell green tips. The definition appears to have evolved over time to include brass/hard-cast for some calibers/states. [3] AP are supposed to be law enforcement only. The ATF exempt some AP intended for specific sporting or industrial purposes. I've never personally found a need to buy it. [1] - https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/ammunition-limits-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/ammunition-... [2] - https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/hardware-ammunition/ammunition-regulation/ https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/hardwar... [3] - https://rocketffl.com/ap-ammo-are-armor-piercing-bullets-legal/ https://rocketffl.com/ap-ammo-are-armor-piercing-bullets-leg...
      - rolph 4y ago
        really big game like alaskan bull moose or grizzly bear have thick dense, bone, and very large muscle mass. I would consider AP to be closer to wise than overkill, id have to check the book for regulations im not sure if it would be allowed on a legal hunt.
        LinuxBender 4y ago
        Alaska does not prohibit armor-piercing ammunition, although the federal prohibition on certain kinds of armor-piercing ammunition applies [1] - https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/ammunition-regulation-in-alaska/ https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/ammunition-regulat...
        4y ago
josephcsible 4y ago
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Because owning a firearm potentially harms others (that is the whole job of the tool, one would argue), sometimes at ridiculous scale for a developed civil society (gestures broadly to mass shooting after mass shooting and overall gun violence [1] [2]). An abortion is healthcare. I fail to see the comparison or how the two can be equated. (Full disclosure: prochoice firearms owner) [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-da... [2] https://everytownresearch.org/maps/mass-shootings-in-america/ https://everytownresearch.org/maps/mass-shootings-in-america...
  - salawat 4y ago
    If you can't think of any other use for a gun than killing other people, that says more about you than the tool mate. It's an open ended, mechanically triggered, gas generator frequently employed to convert chemical to kinetic energy of a poperly dimensioned payload. That has many many uses.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      This is an attempt to technically excuse away a tool that you always treat as loaded until confirmed otherwise and you never point at something unless you intend to destroy what you’re pointing at. You’re not using it to open doors or fix tractors. A tool to drive nails into concrete with gunpowder is not a gun; it’s sold at Home Depot or insert your big box store here. Invasive hog hunting? Sure. Self defense? Sure. Clay pigeon shooting? Why not. 45k gun deaths a year in the US, half of which are suicide? Also true. Regulate that which causes harm, that is the role of government. There is a large canyon between “guns for everyone” and “take away all the guns”, and room for improvement as it relates to harm reduction.
      - 4y ago
vinni2 4y ago
Why is this flagged though? This is related to privacy and technology used to track purchase. I thought this was relevant for hacker news.

8 points by vinni2 4y ago

newaccount2021 4y ago

Anecdotally I have always paid cash. I show my ID to get the military veteran discount but they don't write anything down. I would be curious if the online ammo sites will give people warnings. I also assume the firearm youtubers will be talking about this.

rolph 4y ago

just read through it. it seems to be about deobfusicating a firearms purchase by making the credit purchase classification a bit more granular, and descriptive of such purchases, rather than [sporting goods store]. also adds flags for suspicious purchases, so how you conduct yourself will be reflected as well.

elmerfud 4y ago
Which is kind of silly to add flags for suspicious purchases. Any firearms transfer at a store with an FFL if he is suspicious of the transaction should not sell it or do the transfer. There are already laws on the books to prosecute FFL transfers when you should have known or reasonably known the person you were transferring it to wasn't eligible to have the gun. The federal government is banned by law from compiling a firearms owner's database. This is just a back door to do that. Very likely will accomplish zero reduction in crime or straw purchases. Because when you're buying a gun to commit a crime or for someone else it's generally a few hundred dollars because it's the cheapest gun you can get easy to pay in cash with. This is an owner's database for expensive guns that are not used in crimes. Because those guns are more difficult to pay in cash with for example the last two guns I purchased were $10,000 and $17,000. Clearly these are the weapons that are used in committing crimes.
- rolph 4y ago
  im speculating, there is a class of person that has no legal reason, to be prohibited, but asks things like "will this defeat a bulletproof vest ?". i think this is where the head space is with putting flags on.
  - LinuxBender 4y ago
    AFAIK there are only a handful states where black/silver tip ammo is not legal to sell and/or requires a special permit. [1][2] Most can still sell green tips. The definition appears to have evolved over time to include brass/hard-cast for some calibers/states. [3] AP are supposed to be law enforcement only. The ATF exempt some AP intended for specific sporting or industrial purposes. I've never personally found a need to buy it. [1] - https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/ammunition-limits-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/ammunition-... [2] - https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/hardware-ammunition/ammunition-regulation/ https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/hardwar... [3] - https://rocketffl.com/ap-ammo-are-armor-piercing-bullets-legal/ https://rocketffl.com/ap-ammo-are-armor-piercing-bullets-leg...
    - rolph 4y ago
      really big game like alaskan bull moose or grizzly bear have thick dense, bone, and very large muscle mass. I would consider AP to be closer to wise than overkill, id have to check the book for regulations im not sure if it would be allowed on a legal hunt.
      - LinuxBender 4y ago
        Alaska does not prohibit armor-piercing ammunition, although the federal prohibition on certain kinds of armor-piercing ammunition applies [1] - https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/ammunition-regulation-in-alaska/ https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state-laws/ammunition-regulat...
        4y ago

josephcsible 4y ago

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Because owning a firearm potentially harms others (that is the whole job of the tool, one would argue), sometimes at ridiculous scale for a developed civil society (gestures broadly to mass shooting after mass shooting and overall gun violence [1] [2]). An abortion is healthcare. I fail to see the comparison or how the two can be equated. (Full disclosure: prochoice firearms owner) [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-da... [2] https://everytownresearch.org/maps/mass-shootings-in-america/ https://everytownresearch.org/maps/mass-shootings-in-america...
- salawat 4y ago
  If you can't think of any other use for a gun than killing other people, that says more about you than the tool mate. It's an open ended, mechanically triggered, gas generator frequently employed to convert chemical to kinetic energy of a poperly dimensioned payload. That has many many uses.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    This is an attempt to technically excuse away a tool that you always treat as loaded until confirmed otherwise and you never point at something unless you intend to destroy what you’re pointing at. You’re not using it to open doors or fix tractors. A tool to drive nails into concrete with gunpowder is not a gun; it’s sold at Home Depot or insert your big box store here. Invasive hog hunting? Sure. Self defense? Sure. Clay pigeon shooting? Why not. 45k gun deaths a year in the US, half of which are suicide? Also true. Regulate that which causes harm, that is the role of government. There is a large canyon between “guns for everyone” and “take away all the guns”, and room for improvement as it relates to harm reduction.
    - 4y ago

vinni2 4y ago

Why is this flagged though? This is related to privacy and technology used to track purchase. I thought this was relevant for hacker news.