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What's being measured? From the homepage: "we measure particular programs". Have the Java programs been re-written for multi-core? Have the Erlang programs be

by igouy 18y ago

What's being measured? From the homepage: "we measure particular programs". Have the Java programs been re-written for multi-core? Have the Erlang programs been re-written for multi-core? Have you looked at the individual benchmarks? Have you looked at the individual programs?

alecco 18y ago
Isn't the erlang pitch it makes multiprocessing transparent?
- discipulus 18y ago
  Chapter 20, "Programming Multicore CPUs", in Joe Armstrong's book, he says "If you want your application to run faster on a multicore CPU, you'll have to make sure that it has lots of processes, that the processes don't interfere with each other, and that you have no sequential bottlenecks in you program."
- schtog 18y ago
  I'm no expert but obviously you could code some specific program to perform superwell given unlimited amounts of time. So the question is, given X amount of time to create a program, which runs faster? Not, given unlimited amounts of time, which is faster? So tests like this don't necessarily reflect the real world. That said, I don't really know which way it is, JAVA or Erlang, just sayin... :)
- orib 18y ago
  Sure. So it's easier to make programs that scale well. However, given sufficiently low-level primitives, you can completely emulate the Erlang model, with problem-specific extra hacks to help performance. No, it's not as easy. It's possible to make it perform much better, though, through micro-optimization of the specific operations needed. It's similar to doing a problem in assembly. On the macro level, it takes far less effort to make a performant system in a high level language, however for simple algorithms that are commonly used, you can typically get a threefold speed improvement by doing them in assembly, for a significant increase in implementation effort. Wow, I never thought I'd compare Java to assembly.
- igouy 18y ago
  No! The Erlang pitch is "Distributed, reliable, soft real-time concurrent systems". Distributed supervised processes are a mechanism to achieve error containment and fault tolerance. "making reliable systems in the presence of software errors" (pdf) http://www.sics.se/~joe/thesis/armstrong_thesis_2003.pdf http://www.sics.se/~joe/thesis/armstrong_thesis_2003.pdf

by igouy 18y ago

alecco 18y ago

Isn't the erlang pitch it makes multiprocessing transparent?

discipulus 18y ago
Chapter 20, "Programming Multicore CPUs", in Joe Armstrong's book, he says "If you want your application to run faster on a multicore CPU, you'll have to make sure that it has lots of processes, that the processes don't interfere with each other, and that you have no sequential bottlenecks in you program."
schtog 18y ago
I'm no expert but obviously you could code some specific program to perform superwell given unlimited amounts of time. So the question is, given X amount of time to create a program, which runs faster? Not, given unlimited amounts of time, which is faster? So tests like this don't necessarily reflect the real world. That said, I don't really know which way it is, JAVA or Erlang, just sayin... :)
orib 18y ago
Sure. So it's easier to make programs that scale well. However, given sufficiently low-level primitives, you can completely emulate the Erlang model, with problem-specific extra hacks to help performance. No, it's not as easy. It's possible to make it perform much better, though, through micro-optimization of the specific operations needed. It's similar to doing a problem in assembly. On the macro level, it takes far less effort to make a performant system in a high level language, however for simple algorithms that are commonly used, you can typically get a threefold speed improvement by doing them in assembly, for a significant increase in implementation effort. Wow, I never thought I'd compare Java to assembly.
igouy 18y ago
No! The Erlang pitch is "Distributed, reliable, soft real-time concurrent systems". Distributed supervised processes are a mechanism to achieve error containment and fault tolerance. "making reliable systems in the presence of software errors" (pdf) http://www.sics.se/~joe/thesis/armstrong_thesis_2003.pdf http://www.sics.se/~joe/thesis/armstrong_thesis_2003.pdf