4 ms·
I'd argue free speech is in a historically relatively good place (from my perspective in the US at least). In recent history within the US, there were times tha
by lynndotpy 4y ago
I'd argue free speech is in a historically relatively good place (from my perspective in the US at least). In recent history within the US, there were times that film was not considered protected speech, comedians were arrested for saying simple swear words, and like a zillion different times protesters and laborers were killed for their speech. Protesters are killed far less often today. Plus, with the internet, people have platforms they haven't had before to reach others. You can get a message out far more effectively.
I'd also be careful not to conflate "people who think free speech is a bad idea" and "people who want limitations on speech."
"Limitations on speech" sounds bad, but that includes things like "child pornography is illegal", "you can't advertise your MLM during my physics lecture so please leave", "you can't spam your cryptocurrency here", and other basic moderation. Being a "free speech absolutist" would require rejecting even thsse limitations.
If you're on Hacker News, you're participating in a very very heavily moderated platform. This is also true of StackExchange. I think HackerNews and StackExchange are better for the strict limitations on speech on their platform. (If you turn "showdead" on, you'll see some pretty horrible comments on HackerNews, sometimes calling for deaths of groups or individuals, that are community-moderated away, i.e. censored.)
I would reject the claim that there's an uptick in people who are against free-speech. I don't see anything to substantiate that. I think instead there are disagreements on where to draw the line. "Free speech" is also a buzzword that is used in bad faith, usually divorced from any serious conversation about free speech, which complicates things.
If anything, I think it's a good sign that more people are educated about free-speech (both in terms of ideals and in terms of legal implications where it's a protected right), about censorship, and are having serious conversations about it.
- nyolfen 4y ago>I'd also be careful not to conflate "people who think free speech is a bad idea" and "people who want limitations on speech." sorry, 'free speech except for special pleading for the ideas i don't like' is not free speech.
- lynndotpy 4y agoCool quote out of context, but did you read the rest? I have difficulty believing you're arguing in good faith. If you are arguing in good faith, why are you on HackerNews? Censorship is built-in to the platform with votes and flags, and this is one of the most strictly moderated (censored) social media sites. This isn't special pleading, it's simple nuance. I don't think it's worthwhile to explain why StackExchange would be worse if they allowed porn, or why HackerNews would be worse if we could compare it disfavorably to Reddit (something you're not allowed to say here.)
- nyolfen 4y ago>I would reject the claim that there's an uptick in people who are against free-speech. I don't see anything to substantiate that. it's hard for me to read this and believe you're arguing in good faith either. there is a level of political censorship ongoing in conventional social media that is unprecedented in my lifetime.
- lynndotpy 4y agoWhat country are you living in? My post was from a US perspective. If in the US, I still believe you're wrong, and my argument doesn't rely on that either way. You haven't addressed the extreme limitations on speech the US no longer has, you haven't even addressed the limitations on speech that HackerNews has (which IMO make it better). You are only repeating your vague unsubstantiated statements and mixing in my language about good/bad faith, without addressing arguments. This is a 2010-ish troll playbook, and you are not making addressable arguments, so I don't intend to reply to you any further.
- nyolfen 4y agoi will leave you with this https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1567290905039708160 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1567290905039708160
- notfed 4y agoThis idealism doesn't always work in practice. The more public and popular a forum is, the more we need to weed out spam, scams, vandalism, and other kinds of malware/DoS.
- lynndotpy 4y agoTo be clear, we are in agreement! I'm making an argument that some limitations are worthwhile, and this doesn't make someone "against free speech" except with the most extreme absolutist interpretation. EDIT: I misread the indentation on mobile-- I thought this was a direct reply to me. My mistake!