4 ms·

Big Ideas from 8 Programming Languages

30 points by arkj 4y ago

metasim 4y ago
Borrow checker in Rust? Implicits in Scala?
knubie 4y ago
Clojure 1.0 was released in 2009 and included multimethods (ad hoc polymorphism / multiple dispatch), which predates Julia by a few years.
- armitron 4y ago
  Common Lisp and Dylan had multimethods for decades, and were both strong influences on Julia, unlike Clojure.
  - jghn 4y ago
    Dylan was also a strong influence on R's S4 object system.
- actuallyalys 4y ago
  A lot of these languages didn't introduce their "big idea." I think their inclusion makes sense but the article could be clearer about it. —Comptime exists in Lisps and I think C++ had it before Zig. Zig's contribution, IMO, is in using it to simplify the language. My impression is that they don't have a dedicated generic mechanism as a result. —Multiple dispatch exists in Clojure but predates it. Apparently all dispatch in Julia is technically multiple dispatch and is consequently much optimized. —Optionals long predate Swift (as he acknowledges) and are notably a part of the ML family. I don't know much about Swift, and the author doesn't really make it clear why he found Swift Optionals easier to pick up. —Structural typing existed in dynamic languages, as he acknowledges. I'm actually not sure that Lisp got to images first. Smalltalk is younger than Lisp but old enough that Lisp was still evolving. According to The Evolution of Smalltalk [0], the very first version of Smalltalk had images. I'd be curious as to whether the author or anyone else has a good source on the first Lisp with images? [0]: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3386335 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3386335
  - lispm 4y ago
    Lisp had images in its first version around 1960. See the Lisp 1 and Lisp 1.5 manuals. See Page 67 in the Lisp 1 manual from 1960: https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/book/LISP%20I%20Programmers%20Manual.pdf https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/book/LISP... Then BBN Lisp had an extensive IDE. Xerox later took over and developed it as Interlisp. Multiple dispatch in Common Lisp comes from Xerox CommonLoops (1986) and then CLOS. https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/28697.28700 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/28697.28700
    - actuallyalys 4y ago
      That's very informative, thanks!
rco8786 4y ago
Can someone more intelligent than me explain how multiple dispatch differs from function overloading?
- MarkSweep 4y ago
  In function overloading, like in Java or C#, the method is picked at compile time based on the static types of the parameters. In multiple dispatch, the function is chosen at runtime based on the runtime type of the parameters.
- KenoFischer 4y ago
  Dynamic mutliple dispatch takes into account the dynamic type rather than the static type as you would in say-C++ style function overloading. The single dispatch equivalent is function overloading vs virtual calls.
hayley-patton 4y ago
> In LISP, everything is a linked list Atoms are linked lists?
_19qg 4y ago
Most of that are also old Lisp idioms&features, minus the static type system: * compile time code, in Common Lisp with macro, reader-macros or via EVAL-WHEN -> at compile-time the whole Lisp system is available * multiple dispatch -> introduced with CLOS * when-let, when-let*, if-let, let-bind, ... are older macros * structural typing: what Python, Ruby does -> CLOS does that, too. Even earlier object systems like Flavors. See also Smalltalk. * adding methods to an existing class, outside the class definition -> CLOS has open classes. methods are not defined 'inside' classes, thus there is no 'inside' * Homoiconicity -> easy * image-based development -> see Interlisp ( https://interlisp.org https://interlisp.org ) for an extensive approach the last thing 'everything is a hash table' is not common in Lisp, though there are languages where the key-value mapping is the central data type, like in Frame systems (see FRL)

30 points by arkj 4y ago

Borrow checker in Rust? Implicits in Scala?

Clojure 1.0 was released in 2009 and included multimethods (ad hoc polymorphism / multiple dispatch), which predates Julia by a few years.

armitron 4y ago
Common Lisp and Dylan had multimethods for decades, and were both strong influences on Julia, unlike Clojure.
- jghn 4y ago
  Dylan was also a strong influence on R's S4 object system.
actuallyalys 4y ago
A lot of these languages didn't introduce their "big idea." I think their inclusion makes sense but the article could be clearer about it. —Comptime exists in Lisps and I think C++ had it before Zig. Zig's contribution, IMO, is in using it to simplify the language. My impression is that they don't have a dedicated generic mechanism as a result. —Multiple dispatch exists in Clojure but predates it. Apparently all dispatch in Julia is technically multiple dispatch and is consequently much optimized. —Optionals long predate Swift (as he acknowledges) and are notably a part of the ML family. I don't know much about Swift, and the author doesn't really make it clear why he found Swift Optionals easier to pick up. —Structural typing existed in dynamic languages, as he acknowledges. I'm actually not sure that Lisp got to images first. Smalltalk is younger than Lisp but old enough that Lisp was still evolving. According to The Evolution of Smalltalk [0], the very first version of Smalltalk had images. I'd be curious as to whether the author or anyone else has a good source on the first Lisp with images? [0]: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3386335 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3386335
- lispm 4y ago
  Lisp had images in its first version around 1960. See the Lisp 1 and Lisp 1.5 manuals. See Page 67 in the Lisp 1 manual from 1960: https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/book/LISP%20I%20Programmers%20Manual.pdf https://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/book/LISP... Then BBN Lisp had an extensive IDE. Xerox later took over and developed it as Interlisp. Multiple dispatch in Common Lisp comes from Xerox CommonLoops (1986) and then CLOS. https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/28697.28700 https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/28697.28700
  - actuallyalys 4y ago
    That's very informative, thanks!

rco8786 4y ago

Can someone more intelligent than me explain how multiple dispatch differs from function overloading?

MarkSweep 4y ago
In function overloading, like in Java or C#, the method is picked at compile time based on the static types of the parameters. In multiple dispatch, the function is chosen at runtime based on the runtime type of the parameters.
KenoFischer 4y ago
Dynamic mutliple dispatch takes into account the dynamic type rather than the static type as you would in say-C++ style function overloading. The single dispatch equivalent is function overloading vs virtual calls.

hayley-patton 4y ago

> In LISP, everything is a linked list Atoms are linked lists?

_19qg 4y ago

Most of that are also old Lisp idioms&features, minus the static type system: * compile time code, in Common Lisp with macro, reader-macros or via EVAL-WHEN -> at compile-time the whole Lisp system is available * multiple dispatch -> introduced with CLOS * when-let, when-let*, if-let, let-bind, ... are older macros * structural typing: what Python, Ruby does -> CLOS does that, too. Even earlier object systems like Flavors. See also Smalltalk. * adding methods to an existing class, outside the class definition -> CLOS has open classes. methods are not defined 'inside' classes, thus there is no 'inside' * Homoiconicity -> easy * image-based development -> see Interlisp ( https://interlisp.org https://interlisp.org ) for an extensive approach the last thing 'everything is a hash table' is not common in Lisp, though there are languages where the key-value mapping is the central data type, like in Frame systems (see FRL)