4 ms·

That's just not how any of this works The gap between how the government runs in actual practice, and how citizens think it runs is so large that I'm not sure

That's just not how any of this works The gap between how the government runs in actual practice, and how citizens think it runs is so large that I'm not sure we can even communicate coherently about it

gonzo41 4y ago
Well you should roll back to the time of the missile gap, where Kissinger helped get a lot of nukes built for political reasons more than anything. Raytheon has adds on subway stations in DC for a reason. Messaging works.
- AndrewKemendo 4y ago
  I've been a senior DoD technology leader, I know how it works. I live in DC, I see the ads. Never once has Raytheon or any other defense company tried to make me or any other PEO, acquisitions or contracting officer buy something by generating some fake scare in an attempt to make me or anyone who can actually spend money on behalf of the DoD do so (hint, there's not that many people who can actually approve real money). People think there is some conspiracy to just grow our military for it's own sake - in fact it's almost always at the behest of a foreign partner that needs defense and is asking for the DoD to come and help them (usually via treaty or NATO request). The reason the DoD and the US IC grows is because we are literally protecting the economic freedom of MOST of the world because they explicitly ask us to protect them. It is in our best interest to protect those who ask because the more people who are our partners and allies, the more we can increase trade and promote our way of life. Whether you think that is good or bad is up to you. However there is no secret government cabal sitting around trying to figure out some new fake reason to scare the population. There's more than enough scary things that you aren't dealing with on a daily basis because What was the last time an American citizen seriously worried about being invaded by a foreign power or attacked by a nation state? It just doesn't even occur to the average citizen that there are about a million people working to ensure Americans don't even have to think about not being attacked by foreign power. This is true for every major nation state with a significant defense presence.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    > However there is no secret government cabal sitting around trying to figure out some new fake reason to scare the population. Except when there is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods > The proposals called for CIA operatives to both stage and actually commit acts of terrorism against American military and civilian targets, blaming them on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba. The possibilities detailed in the document included the remote control of civilian aircraft which would be secretly a repainted US Air Force plane,[2] the possible assassination of Cuban immigrants, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas,[3] blowing up a U.S. ship, and orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.[2] The proposals were rejected by President John F. Kennedy.
    - AndrewKemendo 4y ago
      Thank you for bringing this up. These examples prove the point at how rare, egregious and unfruitful all such efforts to create such a cabal have been. Notably solidifying the reality that no such cabal exists. It is true that unethical people have tried to do illegal things in the past. Gen Lemnitzer was fired as JCS and nothing ever came of it. How about when a group of traitors tried to get Gen Smedley Butler to run a coup in the Business plot? There are always going to be people trying to seek power. The ENTIRE REASON we are structured the way we are with civilian politicians and civilian head of the DoD who are there at the will of the people is to prevent such situations and so far we've done a good job at rooting them out. All this proves is that we need the best most ethical people running the show and it actually is important that you, the citizen, is involved in putting the right people in charge. So are you doing everything you can for your country to make sure that the best people are in charge and most importantly the functions of the system continue to act as checks on the others? Are you doing that? Have you done public service in ANY capacity? If so great, keep it up and maybe think about what you could be doing to make your system more robust and reducing similar risks.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        Operation Northwoods only became public knowledge about 3 decades after JFK rejected it. If he had approved it, we might never have heard of it. There is no way to be sure what nefarious shit they're up to today that we might not hear about until the 2050s if ever.

gonzo41 4y ago

Well you should roll back to the time of the missile gap, where Kissinger helped get a lot of nukes built for political reasons more than anything. Raytheon has adds on subway stations in DC for a reason. Messaging works.

AndrewKemendo 4y ago
I've been a senior DoD technology leader, I know how it works. I live in DC, I see the ads. Never once has Raytheon or any other defense company tried to make me or any other PEO, acquisitions or contracting officer buy something by generating some fake scare in an attempt to make me or anyone who can actually spend money on behalf of the DoD do so (hint, there's not that many people who can actually approve real money). People think there is some conspiracy to just grow our military for it's own sake - in fact it's almost always at the behest of a foreign partner that needs defense and is asking for the DoD to come and help them (usually via treaty or NATO request). The reason the DoD and the US IC grows is because we are literally protecting the economic freedom of MOST of the world because they explicitly ask us to protect them. It is in our best interest to protect those who ask because the more people who are our partners and allies, the more we can increase trade and promote our way of life. Whether you think that is good or bad is up to you. However there is no secret government cabal sitting around trying to figure out some new fake reason to scare the population. There's more than enough scary things that you aren't dealing with on a daily basis because What was the last time an American citizen seriously worried about being invaded by a foreign power or attacked by a nation state? It just doesn't even occur to the average citizen that there are about a million people working to ensure Americans don't even have to think about not being attacked by foreign power. This is true for every major nation state with a significant defense presence.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  > However there is no secret government cabal sitting around trying to figure out some new fake reason to scare the population. Except when there is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods > The proposals called for CIA operatives to both stage and actually commit acts of terrorism against American military and civilian targets, blaming them on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba. The possibilities detailed in the document included the remote control of civilian aircraft which would be secretly a repainted US Air Force plane,[2] the possible assassination of Cuban immigrants, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas,[3] blowing up a U.S. ship, and orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.[2] The proposals were rejected by President John F. Kennedy.
  - AndrewKemendo 4y ago
    Thank you for bringing this up. These examples prove the point at how rare, egregious and unfruitful all such efforts to create such a cabal have been. Notably solidifying the reality that no such cabal exists. It is true that unethical people have tried to do illegal things in the past. Gen Lemnitzer was fired as JCS and nothing ever came of it. How about when a group of traitors tried to get Gen Smedley Butler to run a coup in the Business plot? There are always going to be people trying to seek power. The ENTIRE REASON we are structured the way we are with civilian politicians and civilian head of the DoD who are there at the will of the people is to prevent such situations and so far we've done a good job at rooting them out. All this proves is that we need the best most ethical people running the show and it actually is important that you, the citizen, is involved in putting the right people in charge. So are you doing everything you can for your country to make sure that the best people are in charge and most importantly the functions of the system continue to act as checks on the others? Are you doing that? Have you done public service in ANY capacity? If so great, keep it up and maybe think about what you could be doing to make your system more robust and reducing similar risks.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      Operation Northwoods only became public knowledge about 3 decades after JFK rejected it. If he had approved it, we might never have heard of it. There is no way to be sure what nefarious shit they're up to today that we might not hear about until the 2050s if ever.