4 ms·

What you could not make to work for the past 100 years will surely work now.

malermeister 4y ago
We've been trying to make exploitative capitalism work for the past 100 years now too, and all we've gotten is mass suffering and rapidly approaching extinction. Maybe it's time to accept we won't be able to make capitalism work?
- rakoo 4y ago
  Exploitation is at the heart of Capitalism, so I'd rather say Capitalism has worked exactly ad intended for the past 100 years
  - headbansown 4y ago
    I am reminded of this ancient joke: Is there a difference between capitalism and communism? Yes, in principle. With capitalism, man exploits man. But with communism, it is precisely the opposite.
- hbrn 4y ago
  > all we've gotten is mass suffering Do you really think there was less suffering 100 years ago? By what metric specifically? Over the last 100 years poverty rate has been steadily decreasing, hunger rate has been steadily decreasing, life expectancy has been steadily increasing. All over the world. Capitalism uplifts both rich and poor.
  - malermeister 4y ago
    Capitalist exploitation of our natural resources is causing disasters and untold suffering all over the planet. Hundreds of millions have been displaced by floods in Bangladesh this year alone. Forests everywhere are on fire. We have "draughts of the century" every year now. Hurricanes are more destructive than ever. Meanwhile, sweat shop workers building the cheap junk we've gotten addicted to are committing suicide because they can't bear their conditions, a problem so out of hand factories are putting up nets to catch window jumpers. We're rapidly racing towards the edge of the cliff. If we don't change something drastically, we're all doomed. That's not a system that's working out by any reasonable metric.
    - hbrn 4y ago
      > Capitalist exploitation of our natural resources is causing disasters and untold suffering all over the planet. And socialist/communist exploitation somehow has doesn't lead to the same consequences? Isn't China exploiting the same way? Wasn't USSR exploiting the same way? Just don't tell me those aren't true Scotsman. > sweat shop workers building the cheap junk we've gotten addicted to are committing suicide because they can't bear their conditions I asked for a metric, not for emotions. Same people were living beyond poverty and dying of hunger 100 years ago. Now a small fraction of those are committing suicide. Is it perfect? Of course not. Did it get drastically better in the last 100 years? Absolutely. Unlike socialism, capitalism doesn't pretend to be a utopia.
      - carmenSD 4y ago
        Honestly pathos and emotions can guide us in my eye just as much as logos can. You cannot put a value on a singular human due to the unique ability to grow everlasting on a mental health level. To ignore the emotional component in this argument and asking for raw numerals in this case, does this really show cause for an argument of growth because the pathos argument is ignored in it of itself? That doesn't make any sense in my eye. Why use logos to defend mass slavery overseas for production of goods? Isn't that inherent to the actual problems with the capitalistic system? Aren't we as a race beyond Social Darwinism yet? Your logic I feel is showing cause for the emotional problems we have with capitalism and quite frankly I could care less about any singular country's GDP to begin with in this argument because every country has to help get our earth to net zero carbon by 2050 and quite frankly the world's nations are doing a piss poor job in this. Especially the United States. I find our current system of capitalism to be no better personally than an unbalanced video game that hasn't been patched in years and is needing serious re-balancing. But what do I know? I'm just another "emotional" human. Meanwhile every nation is equally responsible for the consequences on this on a scale that to me far exceeds "economics."
        hbrn 4y ago
        > Honestly pathos and emotions can guide us in my eye just as much as logos can. Emotions allow your biases to manifest, letting you focus on thousand suicides and turn a blind eye to famine for millions. And even feel virtuous while doing that. Utterly disgusting.

We've been trying to make exploitative capitalism work for the past 100 years now too, and all we've gotten is mass suffering and rapidly approaching extinction. Maybe it's time to accept we won't be able to make capitalism work?

rakoo 4y ago
Exploitation is at the heart of Capitalism, so I'd rather say Capitalism has worked exactly ad intended for the past 100 years
- headbansown 4y ago
  I am reminded of this ancient joke: Is there a difference between capitalism and communism? Yes, in principle. With capitalism, man exploits man. But with communism, it is precisely the opposite.
hbrn 4y ago
> all we've gotten is mass suffering Do you really think there was less suffering 100 years ago? By what metric specifically? Over the last 100 years poverty rate has been steadily decreasing, hunger rate has been steadily decreasing, life expectancy has been steadily increasing. All over the world. Capitalism uplifts both rich and poor.
- malermeister 4y ago
  Capitalist exploitation of our natural resources is causing disasters and untold suffering all over the planet. Hundreds of millions have been displaced by floods in Bangladesh this year alone. Forests everywhere are on fire. We have "draughts of the century" every year now. Hurricanes are more destructive than ever. Meanwhile, sweat shop workers building the cheap junk we've gotten addicted to are committing suicide because they can't bear their conditions, a problem so out of hand factories are putting up nets to catch window jumpers. We're rapidly racing towards the edge of the cliff. If we don't change something drastically, we're all doomed. That's not a system that's working out by any reasonable metric.
  - hbrn 4y ago
    > Capitalist exploitation of our natural resources is causing disasters and untold suffering all over the planet. And socialist/communist exploitation somehow has doesn't lead to the same consequences? Isn't China exploiting the same way? Wasn't USSR exploiting the same way? Just don't tell me those aren't true Scotsman. > sweat shop workers building the cheap junk we've gotten addicted to are committing suicide because they can't bear their conditions I asked for a metric, not for emotions. Same people were living beyond poverty and dying of hunger 100 years ago. Now a small fraction of those are committing suicide. Is it perfect? Of course not. Did it get drastically better in the last 100 years? Absolutely. Unlike socialism, capitalism doesn't pretend to be a utopia.
    - carmenSD 4y ago
      Honestly pathos and emotions can guide us in my eye just as much as logos can. You cannot put a value on a singular human due to the unique ability to grow everlasting on a mental health level. To ignore the emotional component in this argument and asking for raw numerals in this case, does this really show cause for an argument of growth because the pathos argument is ignored in it of itself? That doesn't make any sense in my eye. Why use logos to defend mass slavery overseas for production of goods? Isn't that inherent to the actual problems with the capitalistic system? Aren't we as a race beyond Social Darwinism yet? Your logic I feel is showing cause for the emotional problems we have with capitalism and quite frankly I could care less about any singular country's GDP to begin with in this argument because every country has to help get our earth to net zero carbon by 2050 and quite frankly the world's nations are doing a piss poor job in this. Especially the United States. I find our current system of capitalism to be no better personally than an unbalanced video game that hasn't been patched in years and is needing serious re-balancing. But what do I know? I'm just another "emotional" human. Meanwhile every nation is equally responsible for the consequences on this on a scale that to me far exceeds "economics."
      - hbrn 4y ago
        > Honestly pathos and emotions can guide us in my eye just as much as logos can. Emotions allow your biases to manifest, letting you focus on thousand suicides and turn a blind eye to famine for millions. And even feel virtuous while doing that. Utterly disgusting.