5 ms·

If you have the skills, get a different job. If you don't have the skills, why should my paycheck go towards propping you up?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
azemetre 4y ago
Because collective bargaining against multinational corporations is the only leverage you have. Unless you happen to be one of the 15 or so people on earth that are literal programming gods... then yes you do have exquisite leverage.
- capitalsigma 4y ago
  My leverage is getting a different job. If that's not enough to get what I want, that's too bad for me: looks like it's in everyone's interest for me to leave -- I get to go to a company that's better suited to my interest, and my company gets to hire someone that's better suited to their interests. If my company is as bad as I think it is, then all of the good SWEs will leave and they'll go out of business. If it doesn't go out of business, then it looks like I was wrong about how bad it is. I also shudder to think of the painful position it would put the R&D team in if they had to bargain with a union every time they got a new transfer that doesn't work out: someone escalates to a manager and it gets communicated to the transfer as "hey buddy, we think it might be better if you spend some time working on ads" for the sake of saving everyone's feelings. Next thing you know, what should have been a polite reshuffling is a negotiation with a union rep...
UncleMeat 4y ago
It is weird to me how this community complains incessantly about things like lack of raises, nightmare interviewing processes, opaque promotion systems, micromanagement, abusive oncall, and forced attrition and also concludes "I am a rockstar god." For a specific example, people often notice that higher pay is going to more recent hires in spite of being less skilled. It is very clear that the current system is not "the most skilled get the most pay" but when unions are mentioned people immediately retreat to this assumption.
- capitalsigma 4y ago
  > this community complains incessantly about things like Different people in this community have different opinions. I think tech interviews are fine the way they are and I believe that my management chain is doing the right things for the company -- I think our promo process generally works OK, I'm not micromanaged, my oncall expectations are reasonable, there is no forced attrition, etc. If I didn't have faith in my management chain, I would leave (as I have done before). > "I am a rockstar god." I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the value you bring to your company should stand on its own two feet. I don't think my employer should give in to employee demands unless it is a net benefit for the business, because the company's success is my success (via stock appreciation). If my employer consistently makes the wrong call in either direction, then they'll fail, and that's OK -- if I think they're headed in the wrong direction, I can leave. "Good business decision" is defined by whether or not it helps the company succeed in the long term. I want my employer to make good business decisions, always, even when it means making tradeoffs regarding employees.
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    If you like those things then a union contract can keep them that way.
    - capitalsigma 4y ago
      I don't want to lock anything down with a contract that removes degrees of freedom from business decisions. I truly, sincerely think that following the wishes of the invisible hand is best for everyone here.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

azemetre 4y ago

Because collective bargaining against multinational corporations is the only leverage you have. Unless you happen to be one of the 15 or so people on earth that are literal programming gods... then yes you do have exquisite leverage.

capitalsigma 4y ago
My leverage is getting a different job. If that's not enough to get what I want, that's too bad for me: looks like it's in everyone's interest for me to leave -- I get to go to a company that's better suited to my interest, and my company gets to hire someone that's better suited to their interests. If my company is as bad as I think it is, then all of the good SWEs will leave and they'll go out of business. If it doesn't go out of business, then it looks like I was wrong about how bad it is. I also shudder to think of the painful position it would put the R&D team in if they had to bargain with a union every time they got a new transfer that doesn't work out: someone escalates to a manager and it gets communicated to the transfer as "hey buddy, we think it might be better if you spend some time working on ads" for the sake of saving everyone's feelings. Next thing you know, what should have been a polite reshuffling is a negotiation with a union rep...

UncleMeat 4y ago

It is weird to me how this community complains incessantly about things like lack of raises, nightmare interviewing processes, opaque promotion systems, micromanagement, abusive oncall, and forced attrition and also concludes "I am a rockstar god." For a specific example, people often notice that higher pay is going to more recent hires in spite of being less skilled. It is very clear that the current system is not "the most skilled get the most pay" but when unions are mentioned people immediately retreat to this assumption.

capitalsigma 4y ago
> this community complains incessantly about things like Different people in this community have different opinions. I think tech interviews are fine the way they are and I believe that my management chain is doing the right things for the company -- I think our promo process generally works OK, I'm not micromanaged, my oncall expectations are reasonable, there is no forced attrition, etc. If I didn't have faith in my management chain, I would leave (as I have done before). > "I am a rockstar god." I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the value you bring to your company should stand on its own two feet. I don't think my employer should give in to employee demands unless it is a net benefit for the business, because the company's success is my success (via stock appreciation). If my employer consistently makes the wrong call in either direction, then they'll fail, and that's OK -- if I think they're headed in the wrong direction, I can leave. "Good business decision" is defined by whether or not it helps the company succeed in the long term. I want my employer to make good business decisions, always, even when it means making tradeoffs regarding employees.
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  If you like those things then a union contract can keep them that way.
  - capitalsigma 4y ago
    I don't want to lock anything down with a contract that removes degrees of freedom from business decisions. I truly, sincerely think that following the wishes of the invisible hand is best for everyone here.